By: noozilander
2/03/2008
5:53 pm Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
I have to seriously disagree here Dan. Kiwis' are hamstrung by massive interest rates and in kiwisaver the government are taking more debt servicing (i.e. kiwisaver contributions) ability away from Joe Average, so they earn miniscule interest on their Kiwisaver savings and have to pay 10% plus interest per annum on 250,000 mortgages even longer as a result.
If you can get rid of a mortgage in 15 years instead of 25 you can save for your owm retirement.
I prefer to deal with my money my way.
Less government intrusion is better not worse.
If you don't expect anything from government, they won't disappoint you.
Aussies can afford their scheme, we can't.
What happens to the savings of thousands of kiwis who won't live to age 65? |
|
By: noozilander
2/03/2008
6:38 pm Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Violetmnsn, you stated that other OECD nations have kiwisaver type schemes and we are a poor nation because we do not save. The government sits on enormous surpluses after stealing (taxing) public money for years and people have no money left to save. Do you seriously believe enslaved forms of saving money will help? Would Kiwislaver have helped the woman who died because they could not afford the power bill? Take a look around. |
|
By: danforbes@xtra.co.nz
2/03/2008
7:00 pm Yahoo! Profile:
danforbes@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Free country nooz don't have to join Kiwisaver if you don't want. |
|
By: cally242
2/03/2008
7:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
cally242 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I wouldn't mind joining Kiwisaver if it was government guaranteed, but at present we have to choose from a provider approved by the govt, and they invest where they want to. If their scheme goes under, or loses our money it is gone forever. I think the initiative is there to encourage us kiwis to save, but why not incentivise all those that save, not just those that save with kiwisaver. Encourage all people to buy their first home with deposit assistance, not just those on 50k or less etc. Getting really sick of dictatorship style of govt and helping those who cannot be bothered helping themselves. Can people on the dole sign up to kiwisaver, and if so, does this mean we are paying them for not working, AND giving them bonus? |
|
By: ernie44p
2/03/2008
7:21 pm Yahoo! Profile:
ernie44p Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| We (couple) are on a decent income and paid 34% tax last year in PAYE and GST. That means for what we earn, we receive less than 2/3rds in the hand. Add in other taxes for fuel, alcohol, tobacco, road user charges, acc, etc then add on what we HAVE to pay for again like doctors, prescriptions, school fees, etc, we have approx 50% of our income as disposable. Take another 4% for kiwisaver..... I don't think so. Sure, there are bonuses but in the meantime, what do we live on and how do we make the mortgage payments? |
|
By: noozilander
2/03/2008
7:29 pm Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Agreed Dan, but it's a farrkin' cynical scheme isn't it. Cullen kicks it off, stiffs employers (yet again) by making it compulsory for them to contribute and our real tax rate is, what did you say, 65%? No real tax relief in sight either!
I wish Doctor Cullen would write himself a prescription for an imagination and actually generate some wealth instead of stealing everyone elses'. |
|
By: dhume200
3/03/2008
1:51 pm Yahoo! Profile:
dhume200 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
noozilander. I have read many of your comments. Many people are joining KiwiSaver and if they persist with it in the long term, they are likely to reap the benefits in later life. I guarantee most families could find it in their budget if they wanted to.
The reason we are poorer than Australia is because of a higher level of debt per head than they do. Their scheme has been going 15 years now and there is very few complaints apart form when the scheme kicked off.
At some stage NZ needs to bite the bullet and get behind it.
Most western countries have superannuation schemes like Australia's. We are being left behind. We can't afford to be such a debt laden society. |
|
By: reedonmac1
3/03/2008
3:54 pm Yahoo! Profile:
reedonmac1 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
here's a thought,to encourage personal saving,and since the
taxman has already taxed our wages, have zero tax on savings
accounts PLUS,10c gvt contribution on every $100 saved! yahoo!!!! |
|
By: golfers248
3/03/2008
5:43 pm Yahoo! Profile:
golfers248 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I agree with cardboard,the more you got the more they want, and whos to say in 20 yrs just where your hard saved $$$$ end up, lost in some "black hole" that whatever gvnt is in, dosn't wish to confess "a bungle" heard it all before. Think you can sum-up a Gvnt equal to Insurance. |
|
By: noozilander
3/03/2008
5:45 pm Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| dhume, New Zealand has the highest tax and interest rates in the OECD. That's why we're poor. Our government continually steals more and more debt servicing ability from us. Now we have another communist policy whereby entrepreneurs have money stolen and 'redistributed' to employees so the nanny state can concentrate on padding out the existence of my neighbours who live in a state house on a benefit and contribute nothing. |
|
By: danforbes@xtra.co.nz
3/03/2008
6:40 pm Yahoo! Profile:
danforbes@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
The only reservations I have about Kiwisaver are firstly the govt. This and future, it is going to be a very tempting pile of money. Maybe too tempting.
Secondly the providers, will they eat up large chunks in fees? Or invest it unwisely and lose it, or large chunks disappear in fraud.
On the face of it, it is a good scheme just weigh up how much you think you can trust govt and providers and check to see if you can do better yourself elsewhere.
The best advise of course as far as I'm concerned is don't put all your eggs in one basket half with Kiwisaver and half in your own retirement plan. |
|
By: xtr365705@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
5:25 am Yahoo! Profile:
xtr365705@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I think we should also look at the massive hit in earnings on Cullens Super fund. If this negative earnings scenario was to happen to Kiwisaver investments then contributors will have good reason to be very worried. |
|
By: dhume200
4/03/2008
9:47 am Yahoo! Profile:
dhume200 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
That's crap Noozilander. We rate about half way as far as OECD tax rates are concerned. Do your research . The media and National have made this in to a huge issue. But the fact of the matter tax cuts will drive up inflation which in turn increases interest rates. Anyone who has mortgage debt would be better off with no tax cut.
Secondly, I note that danforbes is concerned about the govt dipping their hand into KiwioSaver. They can't. KiwiSaver is in individual names. Just the same as they can't access our bank accounts.
Thirdly. Yes, the Cullen Fund and KiwiSaver are both suffering losses at the moment. But hello, look at the market turmoil since Xmas. Both these are long term solutions and we need to be patient and not lose the plot over losses in a three month period. |
|
By: noozilander
4/03/2008
10:39 am Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
The media and national have made this a huge issue.
We need to be patient and not lose the plot over losses in a 3 month period.
Anyone who has mortgage debt would be better off with no tax cut.
dhume, are you Cullens' spin doctor? |
|
By: dhume200
4/03/2008
11:02 am Yahoo! Profile:
dhume200 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
I am simply pointing out tha we don't have the highest tax rate in the OECD (as you would have us beilieve)
Although the financial markets have gone backwards in the past 2-3 months, over the last 5-6 years, the general trend has been healthy upward momentum which at some stage will return.
My last statement I admit was a generalisation I admit but anyone with high debt is likely to suffer as decreased taxes drives inflation which puts interest rates up. Thereofre they pay more interest on their mortgages. Simple economics really! |
|
By: solutionz@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
12:16 pm Yahoo! Profile:
solutionz@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
If you combine GST and apply taxes to every slice of earnings...we are at around 62.7% as at midday today. It fluctuates with movements in spending through GST net. But we are in fact the highest taxed country in the OECD and there can be no argument about that...in fact, we are being double dipped right across the board.
Take a look at a few indicators...twenty years ago a house would cost you around twice the annual earnings...average house, sure, but a house and home none the less.
How many average Joe and Jenny publics are earning in excess of $100k today?
You doctors bill....I remember when it equated to less that a 1/4 hour's pay.today, it is an hours pay for the middle bracket people...way to hell out for the average poor stiff.
Can you tell me why someone would work their asses off, probably go fight some half assed war...and then be lumped in with the bludgers as a 'beneficiary' and survive as best they can on $240 a week?
No use keeping the old head in the sand....don't shut up about it.....get something done about it instead.
We are too damned laid back in this country...we are bl..dy door mats sometimes. |
|
By: lisaloader@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
12:22 pm Yahoo! Profile:
lisaloader@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Has anyone considered what it does to the employers?? perhaps there are business tax cuts in the offing (savings realised once per year) yet employers have to contribute each month/fortnight when they pay PAYE - this takes cash out of the business on a day to day basis and I think will bring pay rates down for employees and take away the potential for higher earnings. Our pay rates are not that flash now! |
|
By: dhume200
4/03/2008
12:49 pm Yahoo! Profile:
dhume200 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Well not if you believe the OECD stats solutionz. If you are so dissatisfied then leave. We need positive people with ideas on how to make the future better not whinging rhetoric about how crap NZ is. |
|
By: solutionz@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
1:32 pm Yahoo! Profile:
solutionz@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
No....tell the truth...you need people to tow the line...the end result...More of Helengrad and more of the Femlin.
You need quitters.
Not this side of the black stump Pal.....never a backward step |
|
By: solutionz@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
1:37 pm Yahoo! Profile:
solutionz@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| ....Oh...and by the way, I never said New Zealand was crap...you said that...just a few minutes ago...I believe in New Zealand..but I don't believe in this government of deviants and misfits...or for that matter, those who sing to their tunes without a thought of their own.... |
|
By: dhume200
4/03/2008
1:40 pm Yahoo! Profile:
dhume200 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I still don't hear any of your ideas. You can criticise all you like but it helps if you don't have any ideas on how to make things better, you lose credibility. |
|
By: noozilander
4/03/2008
2:06 pm Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Fewer politicians.
Less taxation.
Better public transport not more motorways.
Accountability for crime.
Good ideas are easy to come up with.
Getting a politician to listen to the people they work for is impossible.
Whinging rhetoric is what politicians do. This is a message board where ideas can be freely exchanged. |
|
By: danforbes@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
2:58 pm Yahoo! Profile:
danforbes@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
dhume so what if it is individual names, if a govt needs more they tax more and a big juicy pile of super would be very tempting. I'm not saying the govt will dip into it but they may. It is another risk that has to be taken into account in the decision making process before investing in kiwisaver. A higher tax plus fees may make it a pointless saving scheme.
As for those concerned about paying off the mortage any investment advisor worth their salt would tell you to rid yourself of as much debt as possible before investing it makes more economical sense. |
|
By: noozilander
4/03/2008
3:11 pm Yahoo! Profile:
noozilander Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
That's what I reckon too.
Apparently though, we're better off to pay that money in tax and this will keep the interest rate down?
I wish I wuz cleverer. |
|
By: danforbes@xtra.co.nz
4/03/2008
3:23 pm Yahoo! Profile:
danforbes@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Yeah that does sound like your typical politician double speak. |
|
