By: kymhewitson
5/05/2009
11:28 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Your are such a ignorant stupid fool go and use what brain cells you have left and go find out what the word means. bwaa haha! try telling a maori pakeha means superior coz clearly u dont understand a word of te reo do you? coz only a narrow minded whitey would say such a thing and hey call me Kaffir all you want buddy im not offended boy! Coz i am not black i wasnt treated like an animal because of the colour of my skin by superior white devils!! just standing up for my black brothers and sisters would you do the same for your Maori brothers and sisters pfft! i wonder?? and il insult you all i want so go rot in hell biaaatch!! haha! |
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By: max19@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
6:27 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Spot on, maori should be the spoken word of NZ (gods own).We can not get away from english as the international language,it has to stay,Te Reo Maori taught in schools main stream compulsory will give NZ a richness of culture and unite our nation with our past united we will go forward. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
7:19 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Very idealistic Max but I don't think so. Have you done any Maori studies on a marae? I found them very divisive andfull of propaganda |
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By: pip_troy@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
7:46 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Learning maori at school would be a total waste of time, energy and resources. It would serve students no purpose in the real world and would be nothing but an a** kissing exercise to suck up to a minority. I would send my kids to alternative schooling if that ever eventuated. As it is the little they are exposed to is more than enough. More energy put into making sure all maori speak proper english would be a better use of time. Certain words like ask (arks) and three (shree) for example are obviously difficult for many maori to pronounce, lets work on that. |
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By: mudge_rowe
6/05/2009
7:49 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| compulsory to learn maori would be a total waste of time and money, if you want to learnt well go for it. When you go over seas most people have no idea what a maori is |
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By: chic213
6/05/2009
8:39 am Yahoo! Profile:
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i think if you are opposed to your child learning maori for religious beliefs then kei te pai it shouldnt be forced on you.. it shouldnt be forced on anyone.. but in saying that as new zealanders its important for us to learn about our history.. i think learning te reo in schools would be beneficial for our children and youth not just for education purposes but also as a way to break the ice so to speak between pakeha and maori in our schools. its our adults that put these walls up not the kids but yet opinions are being forced on them from both sides. a lot of maori kids could benefit from compulsary te reo as well..
its a beautiful language and does have a lot to offer in the way of career prospects if you look at the big picture and does it really matter if people in other countries dont know what a maori is we are here not there! learning any language other than english is a good thing and to completely be against this because it is cr@p or has no benefits or for silly judgemental reasons that to me comes across as almost racist and racism is ignorance and a lack of education. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
9:21 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Agree with your sentiments chic A certain amount of background if done in the right way (not the way I had where we were hauled into the courtyard and had thehaka done round us and screamed at because our pronounciation wasn't correct - this was for a training course not a school)However in depth language as English is completely inappropriate and would cause resentment. The bottom line is that any basic(only) would have to be non PC non propaganda and factual and relate to positive stuff.
Some of the stuff even at University level is absolute ###
e.g. do a Maori paper at Uni andget questionssuch as "What is it liketo be a Pakeha in NZ" and you have to spout ### propaganda toget marks |
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By: chic213
6/05/2009
9:56 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| yeah thats what i think to..and absolutely only relate to positive stuff if youd like the outcome to be positive of course..for instance i wouldnt be happy if my girl come home from school feeling down or resentful toward her nana a pakeha because she was being taught back in the day people like her punished maori for speaking there language. while it may be inevitible to study topics like so as it is his part of history i dont think hardships maori endured etc etc need to be dwelled on( hope not to offend) rather id like to see our kids using te reo as a way to move foward be able to conversate with each other freely.. focus on arts..and gain a new level of respect between pakeha and maori.. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
10:33 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Agree positive stuff only The punishment stuff you mention is only propaganda from the chip fetish people on the gravy train to put it bluntly. Maori elders asked for English only in schools, ALL kids were caned for not complying with ANYTHING but now it has been made into a grievance. So no not an inevitable topic unless the TRUTH is told. This sort of stuff has to stop as it is causing resentment. Hey the setttlers had horrific lives too including ones that had their parents eaten (near where I live) If that's not thebiggest reason for grievance I dont know what is. However we have to focus on the positive and go forward. I don'tmind a small base of Maori but do it ina positive way not the gravy train bull *** and encourage people to see Te Reo in a good way After that optional but if it's done right e.g. not like thatattitudes now therewill be people interested |
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By: chic213
6/05/2009
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| yeah foward is the only way.. and youre right there is 2 much resentment in our country..and im not happy with it..and apart from the fact that its not healthy for the human mind to dwell on negativity there are concepts kids can not understand( if thats the level we,re talking of youngsters)we are in a different age now a lot of the things taught are irrelevant to this era and are causing a lot of unnecessary problems..there is a lot more to focus on way more important and will be a lot more beneficial for there future.. while some will say you cant ignore the past and history that has shaped and moulded maori people.. i will argue and say you cannot deny them of a productive future by making them resent people today for what may have happened in the past.and the same goes for pakeha. there is a lot to be learnt betweeen the both cultures if you can open up your mind. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
1:34 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| wow can we make you a Maori leader or something Agree with all that wholeheartedly. You are right about the negatvity hurting people It actually stops the go forward. And I truly believe many of thegrievances have been created let me explain that before some oftheradicals start foaming !! if you dwell something you create a lot more hurt than would have been there in the first place. What I have tried to say before is that many nonMaori havehad horrific backgrounds but have had to move forward - noone would listen to them anyway - which is why they have gone ahead - nowhere else to go. Radicals on the board have said it doesn't matter ifpeople who have lost everything come to NZ and get blamed for everything that happened here in the past because that is the price of being here. THeir attitude is that only what Maori have gone through matters not what anyone else has - even if in this country. You will see why so many are now cynical and anti |
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By: rustyramkam
6/05/2009
3:37 pm |
Message deleted. |
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By: hine_raumati@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
10:58 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Rangimarie, Ive rethought youre q. and heres what Ive discovered.
Mainstream secondary and tertiary education systems have failed to provide ideal education for Maori as is evidenced by the low success rates for Maori. The attempt of mainstream to build a monoculture has disassociated Maori culture from Maori education resulting in disengagement of Maori from education. Current attempts by government to remove any race-based programmes have resulted in recognition of one mainstream culture within NZ.
The problem for Maori is they are forced to exist in two worlds, Maori and Pakeha, and are expected to perform well in both. Te Rangihiria, Sir Maui Pomare & Sir Apirana Ngata are Maori who have lived in both worlds and successfully. All came from strong Maori cultural backgrounds which suggest that Maori education should take place in a Maori context. Unfortunately marae are not equipped with the resources or methods to teach. Traditional Maori education took place at marae where accuracy and correctness were traditional values. Specialised training was undertaken by selected individuals who were trained by a specialist ‘tohunga’. |
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By: hine_raumati@xtra.co.nz
6/05/2009
10:58 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Maori education can probably not be achieved through mainstream education. The majority will always view any other culture including Maori an ethnic minority and Maori language will be deemed as inappropriate learning for the majority. However, the government is now looking at ways to address the disparity between Maori culture and Maori education. This has put Aotearoa at the forefront in education for indigenous peoples who are coming out of or going through colonization.
If Maori want to achieve success it will take more than a change in education policies to address issues of low socio economics, poor health and housing. What is required is a change in attitudes from blaming the colonizer to putting things right. If education is viewed as a traditional Maori value then Maori culture should be re-integrated with Maori education via kohanga reo, Maori primary, Maori secondary’s and Maori tertiary institutions. So the answer to Rangimaries question is yes, Maori language should be compulsory in Maori schools. Furthermore there should be Maori tertiary institutions where Maori can gain recognized international qualifications. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
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| Do not agree at all This is passenger mentality The education system is provided by the real world and all other cultures have had to get real and adapt. All this passengerstuff about failingto provide theideal education medium!! The reason why they fail is largetly attitude, laziness - there I/ve said it. The passengermetality is going to make it worse. I have taught for years andthis is the result of observation. Many of us exist in two worlds for ** sake. This is completely navel gazing I;m afraid. Maori are so well helped whether it is special scholarships grants special entry to courses and yes special marking (under theTOW!!) Even funding for music is only easily obtained if it has Moari in it... thelist goes in and of course there are special Te Reo schools Te Wanaga. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
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| So much help that there is resentment among others Let Te Reo be optional after perhaps a initial basic course for all BUT stop all this poor mestuff fantasy or nonone will learn it willingly I have had enough after abuse trying to learn it |
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By: m_ellis@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
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Maori in schools was banned by pakeha at the request of farsighted Maori Elders who wanted their children to be educated and excell the same way as pakeha children tried.
There was never a suggestion that Maori or any other language could not be spoken out of school.
It was then up to the parents to guide their children in language and culture.
Punishment in those earlier days was harsh, not only for speaking Maori. |
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By: hine_raumati@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
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The largest amounts of Maori students are being taught in Wananga igini. Maori students who were raised in Maori environments need Maori culture linked to their education to be successful. Just because youve taught for years that doesnt make you a good teacher. Youre probably one of those teachers who never recognised the rift between Maori education and culture.
And why are people always jilted about the funding Maori receive. Its called redress. John Keys commented that Maori language should be taught in schools but not compulsary. I think there should be Maori schools from Kohanga to tertiary institutions where Maori can gain internationally recognised degrees.
You just assume Maori are lazy, thats because you dont know any personally. |
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By: hine_raumati@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
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Also igini it depends where you teach. If youre a University teacher than youre not a good example of a teacher because you dont actually need a teaching degree for that. If youve been teaching for years than you were probably raised in the era of oppression where children had the reo beaten out of them and were embarrased to speak it. Thus your resentment and perceived abuse trying to learn it.
Todays generation is a very different story. Maori are all about moving forward, putting things right to build a brighter future for our children. If that means a bit of research, navel gazing and backward looking to find the best opportunities for the children then so be it.
Accuracy and correctness are traditionally held Maori values these are not lazy beliefs. I beleive education should be a traditional family value for Maori.
We at least agree on one thing. Children should not be forced to learn Maori language or participate in Maori culture in mainstream education. There should however be educational institutions to accomodate Maori culture and Maori education. Appreciate your input igini, thanks. |
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By: chic213
7/05/2009
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my daughter goes to kohanga reo.. she is thriving.. and absolutely loves it..what she has learnt so far from the total emersion environment is overwhelming.. at home we are 60% english to 40% te reo.( most of the time, my partner is sirish)
as for her going to kura kaupapa im a sceptic. a good friend of mines job day to day involves visiting different kuras and sadly he has said they miss the mark.. now whether that be because of lack of resources or due to funding im not sure.. however i do know kohanga reo recieve not even a third of the funding given by the government per child that kindergarten or other child care facilities get.
im not moaning because from what i see at the kohanga they are doing kapai fine! as for kura kaupapa in my opinion there needs to be more focus on the pupils wellbeing on every level other than upholding the reo because the cirriculum is failing them when they go out into the world.. |
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By: chic213
7/05/2009
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| i meant irish |
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By: rustyramkam
7/05/2009
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Hine,I have to agree on some points with you,to understand te reo one has to understand the culture & vice versa.
One reason maybe people are uptight about the funding maori recieve for anything is that we don`t see anything tangible coming from it,all the money given out to various iwi does`nt seem to filter down to iwi members below management level.
Maori have to take some responsibility also & if it means putting up more money to educate iwi,why not use some of of the tribal money & get the ball rolling,take the initiative & lead the way.
john Key says a lot of things but he also does a lot of U turns.
Most of us don`t think maori are lazy or incapable of success,the main reason is the constant barrage of poor me syndrome & the endless media reports of (mindless) violence & other crime perpetrated by maori on a daily basis.
We don`t hear any success stories,most decent Maori & Pakeha (yes we have our share of low life also)just want to try & do the best we can for our young & try & create a better future for them all.
Education must begin at home,dysfunctional families produce lost children.
Maori have perhaps a better opportunity to gain internationally recognised degrees than a lot of us.
If you cant access these institutions,check out on the web just what Maniopoto has to offer,awesome,they could point you in the right directions.
Final word; "you just assume Maori are lazy, because you don`t know any personally".
That really defeats any sense you were making until that comment.
I would know personally more Maori than you have had warm breakfasts,until your attitude & thinking changes nothing in the big picture will ever change. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
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Taught All levels many teaching quals So i don't know any Maori This beggars belief!!! If I don't agree with you I cant' be a good teacher well this istypcial of the Maori logic on these boards is all I can say, The funding is not all redress, it's assistance. My observations areexactly that observations over many years.
You can get quals in Maori institutions now Just dont' expect international recognition as of right. You cant' really expect it when you have questions such as "DEscribe what it is like to be a Pakeha in NZ" and need to spout propaganda to pass. The different marking standards are also HARMFUL to Maori |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
7/05/2009
3:58 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| however I agree with Chic for common sense and well balanced statements |
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By: fingerprints2009
7/05/2009
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Igini
Sorry, I dont know where you got your Te Reo Maori from. I have studied te reo and I dont remember such a pointless question such as, describe a Pakeha. Surely it is a thing of long ago when Maori were still struggling to have Maori language recognised in education.
And yes, you can get quals in Maori wananga, now since they have the most amount of Maori students it would follow that the quals be internationally recognised and that the wananga be staffed by Maori to preserve Maori culture in Maori education. Of course it should be a research institution so that students are benefiting from their teachers and tutors.
Incidently, when have you ever had to operate in a dual world? You shouldnt try putting yourself in someone elses shoes unless you actually can, its insulting. If you think my attitude is typical of these boards its because I usually cant get more than a few sentences in before Im rudely interrupted by some abusive person pushing their own agenda. (Present company excluded).
And actually, the most harmful thing to Maori would be if they gave up fighting and became an invisible people. No battles were ever won by simply asking kindly for what you want! Unless we/I want to see Maori culture become pure entertainment for the majority like the Aboriginees.
Luckily for our treaty. (There I said it, treaty.) |
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