By: ripekaarmstrong
13/05/2009
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Now Hine where were we, oh yes education for Maori that will fit in with society on a whole.
As you well know we have many under achievers and judging by the amount of High School students that are attending Alternative Education and numbers of truancy it's plain our present system isn't working. Given these, it isn't hard to figure that in a few years time we are going to have a Maori culture of non leadership...thats scarey. To take this further these same kids will inevitably marry partners of the same echelon and the cycle repeats itself. I am going to narrow this down and say that many of the underchievers and kids who are not faring in the present system come from disadvantaged families living in low socio economic areas.
I noticed in one of your other posts you said education should become a traditional value. I certainly believe that could be in the short term plan. Its not something I've given a lot of thought to, have been too busy working in the health arena but definitely the two go hand in hand.
Maori have to work extremely hard to bring things back on an even level with Pakeha as Rangimarie says. |
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By: rustyramkam
13/05/2009
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Kapai Ripeka,
I fuel myself on controversy,some things are important to me & I do have some strong opinions,but I do have a reasonbly open mind & love a good debate.
Some of the other threads discussion is not helpful to anyone, but hey, if I throw in a few wildcards amongst the mix & get the masses thinking & responding then that has to be good.
Some days I`m anti everything but never against education & personal developement.
The treaty issue is a subject we all have opinions on & sometimes, after straining through the dregs, both sides have some good ideas but they don`t heal the divisions.
Thats why,somewhere amongst the threads, I have suggested a modern rewrite.
As it is now,it will always be Maori Vs Pakeha.
Put a thread up,but don`t be too PC as thats 1/2 the problem with NZ,won`t matter how you word it somebodies Mana will be bruised & someone elses Mana will be enhanced.
Say it how you feel Ripeka,the wolves will bite us regardless.......Kick some PC a$$ I say,
Cheers |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
13/05/2009
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Kia ora Kym, what amazing, fascinating awsome research.
Many of our Maori kids in this area who went to Kura Kaupapa were definitely higher achievers than those who went to mainstream, so this may lend credence to your research. They also showed strenghth in the areas you mention. Keep posting Kym, thats real stuff. |
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By: rustyramkam
13/05/2009
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Ripeka,your post before my last one....
Please dont say"in a few years time we are going to have a Maori culture of non leadership" to me that is real scary.
Some of you young educated people will be around I hope to pick up the reigns of leadership.
It sure will be a big challenge,hang in there girl.
With the right education, all the other problems will
lessen
Education should be a traditional value for all |
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By: rangimarie@rocketmail.com
14/05/2009
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If it were easy to do a "Modern rewrite" of the treaty agreement, it would have been done already.
One must consider the potential possibility in 'purging' reference to the treaty as both a means of resistance and justification. If there were ONE interpretation of the treaty, this would be easily accepted. However there is not. If the treaty agreement enables both Maori and the crown to equal access and opportunity, then differentiated interpretations would be inevitable. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
14/05/2009
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Rusty
Education should be a traditional value for all. I agree with that but the system is still conrtrolled by an authority that doesn't embrace a Maori world view, or new incentives for learning. We're still stuck in that, conform or else mentality. For Maori to change mainstream systems need to as well, and there needs to be a collaborative approach from both Maori and Pakeha communities. Our Iwi is working alongside the Intermediate and High School kids in mentoring and tracking them right through to Uni/Polytec/chosen career. It took a multitude of hui with the schools who looked at our proposal with a dim view to get in there but its been 1 1/2 years and still developing and improving. There's still huge gaps though. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
14/05/2009
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| rangimarie, I agree with your whole statement, are you a lawyer. |
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By: nznick69
14/05/2009
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| to be honest and being a parent i dont agree with Maori being compulsory. I think the language has a lot of significance to the Maori and anyone else who wants to learn it but it should be a decision we make. At the end of the day i would rather my kids learn a language they are going to benefit from ie Spain.ish as its spoken in a lot of countries not just Spain. Unfortunately Maori isnt of any use outside this country. |
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By: gkenny.cars@xtra.co.nz
15/05/2009
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| Im a pakeha and i always wished i had learnt maori. So many times ive been in situations where ive felt ignorant by not knowing Te Reo. Maori is a living breathing language in our own country. i cant believe people would think a foreign language is of more value. |
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By: dean_tania
15/05/2009
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| you had to take Maori when i went to school it was compulsory since i left i have never used it. i'm just sick of having to pay taxes for something that was signed centuries ago that i had no say in and nothing to do with! The queen should settle the tribunal grievances & let the rest of us get on with trying to live a productive life. buy the way children who learn sigh language find it easier to learn any other languages. I could use sign language to communicate with my 18mth old daughter, long before she could verbalize any language. very helpful when trying to ask her whats wrong or what she wants! shes not deaf. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
16/05/2009
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| nznick, I agree with you, yes Maori has alot of significance to us and like you dont think it should be made compulsory. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
16/05/2009
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| dean, its a pity it wasnt in the schools when I was there. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
16/05/2009
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| gkenny, your comments coming from a Pakeha really warms my heart. Theres so much negativity about the language and Maori in general that it really gets to me. Thank you for restoring my faith. Go well in your journey through life. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
17/05/2009
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hine all I can say is good grief You seemvery hung up on resentment etc what can I say. Just because someone mentions somethingdoes not meanthey carry resentment into the classroom Part of my culture is letting go and going ahead - far too much to carry otherwise
As for tradtional systems designed to keep Maori down - this is called paranoia and can be clinically assessed. The edcuation system in reality goes the extra mile for Maori to actually think there is a plot.... Why the f.. would anyone want to do this ... and prolong all the problems...The whole government push is aquite the other way |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
17/05/2009
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| BTW I am very much in favour of learningotherlanguages. I dont think that compulsory is the best idea and a lot of that isfrom the attitudes that can be seen on here. |
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By: rustyramkam
17/05/2009
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Ripeka,
re gkenny & others recent postings,surely you can see that all euro NZers are not overly biased & the common thread to some of these comments is that change is in the air.
The comments by Rangamarie make a lot of sense also,but I fear,we have a long way to go & can`t afford to become complacent. |
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By: mozzarella68
17/05/2009
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I think the argument that Te Reo has little, or no use outside of NZ, and therefore is of no value to NZers within NZ is a sad reflection of the attitudes toward Maori in general.
Language is a vessal of culture, so what this argument suggests to me is that NZ places no value on Maori culture, and cannot or will not incorporate this language into contemporary NZ society as something that makes us unique.
I get that other colonial languages like French or S.p.a.n.i.s.h have greater currency overseas and thats fine, but this does little to define who WE are in NZ! |
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By: adrianvon60
17/05/2009
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| learning maori is the biggest waste o taxpayers money and has no benefit in this modern world It is another communiost effort to divide our multi cutural person in this country |
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By: mozzarella68
18/05/2009
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stevo: "get your fact right rangi, Indigenous means "native to a country" Maori are not native NZers."
One minute you claim Maori are not indigenous, then you break out the dictionary to claim that anyone born in NZ is indigenous by definition.
Surely this would apply to Maori also? Make up your mind steve, because you are not consistent or even handed in the way you apply these definitions.
I prefer to use the term 'first nation' over the term 'indigenous' because there is usually some type of
confusion over who is or isn't indigenous.
The term 'indigenous' is confusing because most people in the world are indigenous to their countries in the sense of having been born in them and being descended from people who were born in them.
Indigenous peoples are clearly native to their countries in this sense too, but they also make another claim, namely that they were there first and are still there and so have rights of prior occupancy to their lands.
Maori are indigenous to NZ. If you have an issue with this then my response is simply to say that Maori are the first nation peoples of NZ.
That isn't opinion, it's fact. |
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By: mozzarella68
18/05/2009
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Terms like 'indigenous', 'first nation' or 'native' are exonyms i.e. applied from outside and usaully from the point of view of the coloniser to the colonised.
These terms mean different things to different people, but they are often used to exclude people from this or that group and often used on conjuction with notions of 'purity' i.e. blood quantum to exclude rather than include.
Indigenous people are constantly being challenged to prove their indigenousness, when curiously, Europeans are seldom, if ever required to prove their European-ness. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
18/05/2009
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Rusty, thank you for your comments and yes I do see that not all euros are overly biased and I absolutely appreciate and am always warmed by their heartfelt expressions.
I have always said we have a long way to go which is why I dont agree with compulsory Te Reo Maori in schools. No matter which way we go Total Immersion, Maori Kura or compulsory Reo in mainstream it will always be seen by the majority in a negative light. Regardless Maori have to purg on to do what is necessary to raise the level of achievers. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
18/05/2009
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Kia ora Mozz, how are you, hope all is well with the whanau over there. Always love reading your posts, so factual lively and well versed.
It feels like we've just taken the reigns from our Tupuna and continued on with battles for lost lands, only now its extended to health, education, and justice exacerbated by low socio economics. God, what a mess, but the good thing is we are getting there slowely but surely. If we lay down and die we'll definitely get lost.
Don't stop posting Mozz, your contributions are invaluable.
Arohanui ki a koe me to whanau katoa. |
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By: sharmaine.hape
18/05/2009
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to be honest and being a parent i dont agree with Maori being compulsory. I think the language has a lot of significance to the Maori and anyone else who wants to learn it but it should be a decision we make. At the end of the day i would rather my kids learn a language they are going to benefit from ie Spain.ish as its spoken in a lot of countries not just Spain. Unfortunately Maori isnt of any use outside this country.
Fair comment, but are you implying that your children will not benefit from learning Maori? How will S P A N I S H help them in NZ when Te Reo Maori is one of 3 official Languages in Aotearoa? But yes you are right at the end of the day, they are your Children and what you say goes. I just want you to know though, that Maori is truely a beautiful language to learn. |
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By: sportzaction@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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What a laugh....
WHO....speaks it?....seriously, French, *** anese, Sp *** h, German all voluntary....Maori..SAME. ...stop pushin your junk on our kids.. |
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By: hine_raumati@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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Oh hi igini. Clinically assessed by who? What can be clinically assessed? By golly igini for a teacher your writing skills, editing skills and ability to be succint in your answers is horrendous. Igini, do you think mainstream teachers are poorly educated? Just a question.
I actually dont like sending my three children to public school in case the teachers dont take the time to be aware of the issues they face as Maori. How does the education system go the extra mile? I need examples. |
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