By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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Paranoia can be clincally assessed and what I said makes perfect sense. make no apologies for words thatare stuck togetherDifficult typing with broken arm. Teachers can only do so much there are many kids who need recognition and help and those that are prepared to help themselves will get most help.
Extra mile - funding, extra salaries for Maori teachers, NCEA itself to help gain passes, special scholarships plus eduational funding for university courses , special marking at university level that I have dealt with e.g. putting a single bookon colonisation as a reference for soemthing completely differente.g. a scientific experiment would be off topic for anyone else You may think this is not enough but remember nooneelse gets this |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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| no mainstream teachers are welleducated. Most teachers going into a similarjob in the businessworld would earn much more |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
18/05/2009
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| sharmain, ae, he tautoko to korero, he ataahua Te Reo o te Rangatira. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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It is good for it to be promoted andmaintained but remember that it must be done ina encouraging way and I dont think compulsory will do this. There has been too much aggro surrounding this e.g. a group of us doing Maori for a social work course were screamed at from inches away, dragged into a courtyard had the haka done at us up close because our pronunciation in making speeches wasn't good enough.The aggro and belligerence has to go
It wasnt in fun either there were people in tears |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
18/05/2009
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Hine, PARANOIA...clinical assessments made by Psychiatrists
using the DSMIV diagnostic tool to define if the patient meets the criteria, and secondly to define the level and/or severity. It is highly imperative to get the diagnosis correct to determine the level of medication and treatment.
One who has not been clinically trained in this area, tread very dangerous grounds in giving a diagnosis as this is right out of their scope and overstep boundaries.
Even those who work in the Mental Health Arena and work with Paranoia patients cannot give a diagnosis. |
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By: stevoc263
18/05/2009
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| Mozz, can you tell me where I broke out the dictionary on this thread? The only confusion about the word indigenous, is when people like you try to infer it applies only to maori, now you say you prefer the term first nation, Make up your mind Mozz, because you are not consistent. maori were not here first, so why would you call them that? |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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| why don't you tell us who was here before maori, steve |
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By: hine_raumati@xtra.co.nz
18/05/2009
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Hi igini. You obviously have alot of experience in your area and are passionate about your profession. Noku te he, I think all teachers should share the same passion. I see your points as a good thing! Maori getting assistance in a system that was once designed to accelerate their demise! Yeess!!
Now,
'Paranoia can be clincally assessed and what I said makes perfect sense'. Those are strong words, explain. |
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By: madaxe01
18/05/2009
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| stEVE do you mind ....the thread gets lowered when your around....go play with your KKK mates theres a good boy..... |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
18/05/2009
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jgini, you're a bludy idiot to say the least. Granted you may be a good teacher but I can't see it from any of your posts. Its well researched and documented that the education system is in a mess and certainly doesn't cater for Maori on an equal level that it should.
How do you identify kids who don't want help as opposed to those who are struggling to understand the subjects and too shy to ask for help. How do you assess those who need recognition, and are you saying that Maori get preferential treatment in a system that clearly is not working for them. If that is the case then it surely signals that identified gaps need to be reviewed.
You speak in riddles and need to make yourself more clear.
Last but not least, you don't have the discipline or the qualification to make a diagnosis on Paranoia or any other psychotic, mental health, or dual diagnosis disorder. You've taken one small part of hine's comment(which means absolutely jack shyt) and made your ridiculous, unfounded assumption from that. |
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By: mozzarella68
19/05/2009
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stevo: You are correct. You didn't break out the dictionary in this thread. I was referring to another in which you did refer to the dictionary to make the same case.
My bad.
As for indigenous Vs frist nation: It's a matter of choice and as I said earlier, terms like 'indigenous' mean different things to different people espcially where this term is applied to descendents of non-Maori so you can usually count on some type of confusion and/or contest whenever this term is used.
In this case, I prefer to use 'first nation' because this is, I think, what people mean with they say 'indigenous' when applied to Maori.
People make the same claims about American Indians here in the US i.e. that they are not 'indigenous', so the term 'first nation' is used in a similar way to articulate the fact that issues of first occupancy is really at the center of the debate, rather than over what constitutes 'indigenousness'.
I see a direct similarity to the same debate in NZ. The issues are virtually the same, it's just that the actors are different.
Hopefully that makes sense.
When you can demonstrate that Maori were not in NZ first, then we can discuss your other issue. Until then, you are entitled to your opinion about who was first, but that's all it will ever be. You should make an effort to distinguish fact from fiction. |
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By: mozzarella68
19/05/2009
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stevo: You are correct. You didn't break out the dictionary in this thread. I was referring to another in which you did refer to the dictionary to make the same case, but I didn't mention which thread.
My bad.
As for indigenous Vs frist nation: It's a matter of choice and as I said earlier, terms like 'indigenous' mean different things to different people espcially where this term is applied to descendents of non-Maori in NZ, so you can usually count on some type of confusion and/or contest over what this term means whenever it is used.
In this case, I prefer to use 'first nation' because this is, I think, what people mean with they say 'indigenous' when they refer to Maori indigenousness versus non-Maori who are also indigenous by virtue of being born in NZ.
People make similar claims about American Indians here in the US i.e. that they are not 'indigenous', so the term 'first nation' is often used in a similar way to articulate the fact that it's the issues of first occupancy that are really at the center of the debate, rather than over what constitutes 'indigenousness'.
I see a direct similarity to the same debate in NZ. The issues are virtually the same, the challenges of indigenous peoples to prove their indigenousness are virtually the same, and the debate over who or what constitutes 'indigenous' is virtually the same. It's just the actors that are different.
Hopefully that makes sense. I hope so, because I can't be bothered correcting this post again!
When you can demonstrate that Maori were not the first to occupy NZ, then we can discuss your other issue. Until then, you are entitled to your opinion about who was first, but that's all it will ever be. You should make an effort to distinguish fact from fiction. |
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By: miss_ngati_porou
19/05/2009
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Why is Te Reo Maori a laugh sportzacton?
Ka korero ahau te reo Maori e nga wa katoa!...So what was that again sportzaction??, you were wondering who speaks it??
Maori culture is not junk!
You truley are ignorant, ill-informed and uneducated. So get off your computer you loser, get a job and then come back here when you have something much more intelligent to say! |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
19/05/2009
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ripeka you have to start to take ownership and that is oneof theproblems Teachers can identify the aspects you mention but if thestudent is not willing to make an effort thenwhat can you do???? Yes Maori do get preferential treatment and I have no problems with that as they have more to adapt to than MOST of the Pakeha cultures but less thansomeof them also. A lot of the Problem has to be also the attitude of Maori andthe value that is put onthe educationsystem. The education system such as it is is not perfect and can never be for everyone It has been changed with NCEA to help the low achievers who is many cases are Maori I feel that the education systme least favours the high achievers at the moment. We now longer have parity overseas and this is a problem as it is in the global market we have to compete and exist.
Research can prove anything you want if you play with the stats and not the reasons and this is anotherof the problems. You also need to realise that educationis not a plot to assimilate Maori - they dont; comeintothe thinking inthis way. Weare part of an outside world and this affects us not a plot!!!Secondly I do have the discipline to talk about paranoia but thatwas notthe context inwhich I was speaking and if you understandEnglish you will understand the tone in which I was speaking andwhat was intended.
Hine was talking as if there was a plot to destroy/assimilate Maori. Children were caned because they spoke Maori etc Well this is because the elders had requested it and the discipline was that of the day. Heavens my grandfather was caned for the very same thingbut we never dreamed to think of this as abuse and a plot - we understood the context it was in and had no problem. Do you not see that creating chips and grievances where they do notneed to be is counterproductive and harmful. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
19/05/2009
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| and I do not edit my posts so apologies but I dontintend to either |
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By: kiwibeca
20/05/2009
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Some of the comments and opinions on this issue from the "anti" camp embarrass me and make me feel ashamed to call myself a New Zealander. At the very least, Te Reo Maori needs to be part of the Curriculum, ideally compulsory, right up to the Fifth Form, alongside English, Maths and Science. It's no less relevant here than any of those subjects as far as I'm concerned.
As others have mentioned, not only will compulsory Maori improve and enhance Maori/Pakeha race relations here, (As I myself have found by watching the English subtitled broadcast of Te Karere on occasion.) but as New Zealanders I feel the we all have a duty to preserve and protect Maori Reo and Tikana. (Hope my spelling/grammar/syntax etc is correct. :-)) Despite what some narrow-minded people might think, many foreigners tend to associate Maori Culture with New Zealand. It's right up there alongside Sheep farming, the All Black's, and our landscape as part of our national identity as far as many foreigners are concerned.
To cite an example from my own experience; when I was in my early teens, I spent some time living in Canada with my Canadian born mother. Mum used to like to show me off to all and sundry, much to my chagrin, and the only thing that she could really use as a point of difference as to my kiwi-ness, was the embarrassingly small amount of Te Reo that I knew back then. Despite my pitiful lack of knowledge of Te Reo; all that I could really manage was 1-10, most people were fascinated by this strange and unique language.
Why shouldn't New Zealand born Tamariki, of all ethnicities, have at the very least a good working knowledge of the basics of ALL of the official languages, and that does include NZ Sign Language, used in the country in which they were born?? To continue to leave Te Reo Maori off the NZ curriculum is to continue along the path of ignorance and bigotry, and it is well known that ignorance breeds ignorance.
(I'm a very proud Pakeha New Zealander too BTY. :-)) |
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By: ronaldsdead
20/05/2009
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| maori culture and language is a joke and i spit on it and in the face of every scum maori in nz |
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By: ronaldsdead
20/05/2009
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| maori are not indigenous! |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
20/05/2009
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| perhaps ronald should be dead |
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By: chic213
20/05/2009
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perhaps ronald has been told he is scum and a joke and been spat on.. if he hasnt.. after he said that he deserves to be!
shame on you.. and attitude like that you can keep to yourself thankyou. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
20/05/2009
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The change of attitude to schooling was a major turnaround for Maori parents to reinvest in their kids education that many held misgivings and resistance to a dominant Pakeha state. Those changes have only been 30 years in the making and were initiated out of mainstream. The transformations has definitely raised the numbers of Maori achievers and revitalized Te Reo. If this doesnt tell you that Maori havent taken ownership of their problems then nothing else I tell you will. I have no doubt these institutes are constantly reviewing for continuity and growth.
The major problem for Maori is within the mainstream schools where a lot of our kids still attend probably for geographic reasons. Maori resources that are supplied are visibly a jest of tokenism that will not prepare them for their future much less the global economy. The 2010 MOE curriculum also fails to recognize and address the problem.
Preferential treatment in terms of funding for scholarships etc come from various Iwi education fund initiatives where students need to prove their whakapapa, Pakeha also have places they can access.
Now tell me where you get the discipline to assess Paranoia and how did you assess that. Last but no least our Ancestors did not request their kids to be caned for speaking Te Reo. |
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By: ripekaarmstrong
20/05/2009
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Ingi,
You obviously dont know or choose not to know your history and use assumptions rather than facts. I believe to be counter productive as a people you have to learn the past to see where youve come from.
You say a lot of the problem is Maori and the value they put on the education system.
The education system was developed under a Eurocentric structure that was essentially designed to reproduce and perpetuate Pakeha dominance. It also played a major role, to entrench colonization and suppress Maori culture and language (assimilation, this I believe is what hine was referring to). In the 1970s Maori Leaders were so concerned for our dying language, culture and knowledge they took matters into their own hands and made a revolutionary move to set intstitutions at pre school, primary and later in the 80s, secondary and tertiary. |
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By: ko39brien
20/05/2009
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| I'm happy to see Te Reo as a compulsary subject, as long as Sign Language (the other offical language of New Zealand) is compulsary aslo. |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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The education system was developed under a Eurocentric structure that was essentially designed to reproduce and perpetuate Pakeha dominance.
Get real this is the paranoia I was talking about
Sit back and listen to yourselves!!!! |
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By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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| I know a lot of history but fromthe viewpoint of reality not appropriate agendas |
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