By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
19/05/2009
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Good Morning kerdieh. I see that you say on your profile that you are 25 - that would account for your ACT vote. You obviously did not live through the Roger Douglas years and have been sucked in by the retoric which in reality provides an environment for the internationally wealthy to move from nation to nation making demands and making money at the expense of the peoples of those nations.
You also appear to have a very blinkered view about the Spencer Trust situation - the fact that the Party you support funnels millions of dollars of donations via the same method doesn't appear to be a problem to you. Apparently when Rodney and the ACT party break the Electoral Commission Rules with regard to free office space that is not a problem to you. It would appear that it is one rule for one and one for those you support.
With regard to Winston I freely admit that he could have handled things better. I would ask that we all remember that he is a man - not a god - and like all men is fallable. I also ask that we remember that in that short time frame - from July until November - he lost his Mother, he was physically unwell from a bug that he picked up in the Pacific Islands, he was continuing to carry out his portfolio roles until he handed them back as requested due to the enquiry and was attempting to run an election campaign with an administration wing that was loose to say the least. Now all this stress is going to add up in the end - I would be interested to see if John Key or Rodney Hyde could stand up to that sort of pressure and remain gracious to all a sundry.
But Sir while you can express your opinion about the events unless you know the man your comments are uninformed. |
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By: kerdieh
19/05/2009
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Good morning Mardale,
Very nice post, appreciate your civil tone even though I'm sure you find my opinions unpaletable. It is not the man I criticise so much as his behaviour.
What I dislike about Winston's behaviour is the hipocricy it represents. He condemned the use of trusts to hide donations, then set up the Spencer Trust to do exactly that.
The fact that other parties also use trusts to disguise their donors is not the point to me, it's the fact he campaigned against exactly that then did it himself. When caught he was continually evasive about the nature of the Spencer Trust even though his own brother was a trustee. Then there was the non declaration of ST donations to NZF. Ooops, an honest mistake. Yeah, sure.
Continuous denails about recieving donations, and when caught tries to use a legal technicalitity to say that he didn't benefit from it or know about it. Truth has to pulled out of him like a bad tooth. Remember the "I never used a helicopter to campaign" statement, oh wait here's a photo of me getting into it.
A straight answer seems to be anathema to him. his typical response to any difficult or uncomfortable question is to attack the person raising it, rather than address it.
Rodeny hide may be just as bad, but I will at least give him the same benefit of the doubt that I did Winston. At least he had the guts to confront Winston when no one else would.
As I said, I once had great respect for the man but this has long passed. I mourn the loss of the man he was, even as I loathe what he has come to represent.
This profile was set up by someone else a long time ago, I'm a little older than 25 I'm affraid. Roger Douglas, for all his faults, is credited with creating a modern competitive economy in NZ. His reforms were no doubt painful - my own background is from a low income family - but ultimately necessary, and have never been reversed by sucessive governments.
Jury still out on ACT as a whole though.
C ... |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
19/05/2009
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kerdieh - fair enough. While I accept your comments with regard to the handling of allegations I reserve the right to choose who to believe on my own information and not that gathered and twisted by others. For example and this is what some people appear to hate - Winston Peters did not "campaign" from a helecopter he got a ride in one to the West Coast. His statement is true even if it annoys those that are attempting to paint a different picture. And come on! Suddenly after years pictures, emails and other bits and pieces start showing up from god knows where - but apparently it is too much of a stretch to believe that ACT and National Party Right Wing Financial supporters didn't pay to have several private investigators working to find out stuff about Winston Peters and New Zealand First.
And I will tell you another thing that really gets my goat is that a supporter of Rodney Hyde can criticism others at all. Rodney Hyde laid three complaints of Fraud against the Secretary of the New Zealand First Party. That's right not Winston Peters - although you wouldn't know it from the press - but the Secretary of the New Zealand First Party. Now that person just happens to be my Mother. She was found Not Guilty of Fraud by all three of the organisations that we had at the house investigating her - sorry there was one trip to the police station to be videoed while being interviewed. Now my sister contacted Rodney and asked him if he would apologise to our Mother as publically as he had accused her. He has twice confirmed that he would not.
This is the man you admire. A man that will step on anyone to fulfil the agreement he has with his backers - and in 2008 his task was to get rid of Winston Peters - well he did that. 2009 was to deliver the billions of dollars of Auckland City assets to Mr Gibbs and his mates - and he's about to do that with bells on. Rodney won't run in the next election you watch - he will have a nice little directorship somewhere. |
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By: kerdieh
19/05/2009
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Hi Mardale,
Sure, you have every right to believe whoever you choose. As stated, my beef is with Winstons behaviour and actions and his unwillingness to to accept responsibility for his actions.
Rodney hide is not a man that I particularly admire. I do admire that at a time, pre election, when no one else would persue the alegations against WP, he did. National only came on board much later , initially they were too worried about upsetting Winston and perhaps losing him as a future coalition partner to do anything to annoy him.
Rodney and ACT may be the devils you paint them to be, time will tell. But whether they are saints or sinners has no bearing on whether Winston is also a devil. Has he ever apologised publicly for the multiple false allegations he's leveled at his opponents? Do you think, he would have made a public apology if he were in Rodney's place? I think we both know the truth of that one.
I have no real problem with NZF as a party, my beef is with Winston and more accurately with his behaviour and actions. he tends to use his position as leader of NZF interchangably with himself when it suits him, then claim that he has no knowledge of Party matters when it suits him as well, which strikes me as inconsistent and yet another smoke and mirrors sidestep to be used conveniently.
I actually wish NZF all the best, but so long as Winston has anything to do with NZF I will not be able to bring myself to support them.
hope the party can survive a term out of government, but hope more that you put a great deal of distance between yourself any WP.
Cheers, |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
20/05/2009
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kerdieh - Unfortunately you have based your opinion on a man from a place of ignorance. Why on earth do you think that as the Political leader of the New Zealand First Party that Winston Peters would be totally aware of every administrative detail carried out by the administrative wing of the Party.
The money you are referring too had nothing to do with the New Zealand First Party as such - it was placed in a lawyers trust fund to be used to support legal costs incurred by Winston himself in the defamation cases he has ongoing.
You see - people get confused - the media doesn't help you and you are baseing your decision on information that is tainted.
Now would it be possible for just one second to imagine the Winston Peters did not know that Owen Glen had donated that money. I know you don't want to but use your imagination and just for one second put that into your mind. Can you imagine being that person - who no one believes - who everyone wants to admit something that is not true - wants you to apologise for something you have not done.
Again don't get me wrong - Winston Peters is a man and has made mistakes just like any other man - he is no demi-god - but you surely cannot believe that this was not a pusuit of a man to take him out of the political picture - now you need to ask yourself why? Because Rodney Hyde is such a good decent honest man? Oh Please. And you say that National was slow in coming forward on this issue. Again you are misled. The National Party gave Rodney Hyde their questions in parliamentary question time to pursue this matter from the very moment that it started.
National Party sources came to our offices in Wellington and told us when private investigators had been hired. No Sir they were not slow - they were just very good at getting Rodney to do their dirty work - and what was in it for Rodney - why Auckland ofcourse. |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
20/05/2009
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kerdieh - Unfortunately you have based your opinion on a man from a place of ignorance. Why on earth do you think that as the Political leader of the New Zealand First Party that Winston Peters would be totally aware of every administrative detail carried out by the administrative wing of the Party.
The money you are referring too had nothing to do with the New Zealand First Party as such - it was placed in a lawyers trust fund to be used to support legal costs incurred by Winston himself in the defamation cases he has ongoing.
You see - people get confused - the media doesn't help you and you are baseing your decision on information that is tainted.
Now would it be possible for just one second to imagine the Winston Peters did not know that Owen Glen had donated that money. I know you don't want to but use your imagination and just for one second put that into your mind. Can you imagine being that person - who no one believes - who everyone wants to admit something that is not true - wants you to apologise for something you have not done.
Again don't get me wrong - Winston Peters is a man and has made mistakes just like any other man - he is no demi-god - but you surely cannot believe that this was not a pusuit of a man to take him out of the political picture - now you need to ask yourself why? Because Rodney Hyde is such a good decent honest man? Oh Please. And you say that National was slow in coming forward on this issue. Again you are misled. The National Party gave Rodney Hyde their questions in parliamentary question time to pursue this matter from the very moment that it started.
National Party sources came to our offices in Wellington and told us when private investigators had been hired. No Sir they were not slow - they were just very good at getting Rodney to do their dirty work - and what was in it for Rodney - why Auckland ofcourse. |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
20/05/2009
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| Sorry - hit the button twice by accident |
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By: newage@xtra.co.nz
20/05/2009
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| NZ LAST SUPPORTERS ??????????NOUGHT >ZILCH> 0000000000000000.////???? ?????????? |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
20/05/2009
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| newage - is that suppose to be humour? Your not very clever are you ... what a shame ....tell us who did you vote for just so we can all be warned. |
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By: inanga
21/05/2009
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| Mardale - you have such patience with the ignorant LOL!!! |
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By: newage@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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| YES HE SHE IS AN INGNORANT PRAT AH!!????? |
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By: shoemail@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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| What's happened to Winston anyway? |
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By: kerdieh
21/05/2009
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Mardale,
yes, all that you say is theoretically possible. It's also POSSIBLE that Winston was abducted by aliens years ago and that whay we see before us is a cleverly constructed clone.
Possible, but unlikely. I'm not going to get into the details of the donations allegations, priv. committee hearings and so forth. Far too long a debate and I don't think that at the end of it we would come to any agreement. Suffice it to say that I have judged Winston not so much on the alegations made against him, but on his conduct, response to those alegations and the evidence supplied.
You say that I make a judgement based on ignorance. That is not necessarily so. I may not have an in depth personal knowledge of him, which I'm guessing you do, but i do know what I have seen of him and have read the transcripts both of the priv. commitee hearing and archives of his comments in parlianment over the years. I do not speak from ignorance so much as objectivity. Much as a mother will always want to see the best in her child reagrdless of the facts, a persons personal involvement with someone can also colour their view and cloud thier objectivity.
The point remains that I have seen little to respect from Winston in recent years. His standard response when confronted with something is to attack the accuser rateher than deal with the substance of the issue. I believe he once served a useful purpose in politics and represented values and ideal which should be aspired to. Sadly that time has more than passed.
As for knowledge of the details of the inner workings of NZF? He claimed many times to ahve a great understanding of what goes on in his party, as he should when he represents it. apparently though he only knows about beneficial things and has no knowledge whatsoever of anything that might be politically uncomfortable. |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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kerdieh - You are right - there are certainly points were we will never agree - I do however concur that there were issues that Winston Peters could have dealt with in a different and more constructive way - I however was not standing in his shoes so I try not to judge too much except to say that hindsight is a wonderful thing - Ms Lee probably agrees with me right at this moment in time.
However - I keep trying to get this across to people - Winston Peters in only one man inside a political party - why do people accept that if John Key was got hit by a bus tomorrow (and I am not wishing that to happen at all but if it did) people don't see the immediate demise of the National Party - they accept that there are other people there behinds the scenes capable of picking up and carrying on. For some reason people cannot accept that the same is true of the New Zealand First Party - is that because the media has done such a number on that particular topic and that perception? Is it because Winston is such a strong character that it always appears that way? Whatever the reason I personally don't belong to a Winston Peters Fan Club - I am a member of and voluntarily work for the betterment of the New Zealand First Party.
You acknowledge that some of their policies are of value yet you do not support them because of one man - you do not necessarily mention that ACT had policies you suppported yet you voted because you like the fact that one man attacked another - rightly or wrongly - so what were you voting for? And if it is not a vote for the policies that you believe will be good for the nation then what is it for? |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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shoemail - Don't worry. He's still here. Patience is a virtue.
By the way I see that David Farrier, National Party paid blogger, got a copy of an internal membership email and put it onto his blog site. I then note the Dominion picked it up and ran a story on it. All without speaking to anyone from the New Zealand First Party. Now that's easy money isn't it.
As to a member passing on that correspondence - well even the National Party has members that show up with tape recorders in their pockets so no need for us to panic. You only need to worry about these things if you have something you are trying to hide and quite frankly we don't.
For me personally I would like to thank Mr Farrier, the National Party that pays for his time and blog site and the Dominion for the coverage and passing on the message about our stand and the Mt Albert By-election - certainly saved us on postage :) |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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To all those interested like shoemail if you want to keep up to date on the goings on of the New Zealand First Party first hand and find out what Winston Peters and the rest of us are working on you are going to need to join up.
To become a member you can contact me on nzfirstmembership@gamil.c om
Come on - you know you want to :) |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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typing too fast
that's nzfirstmembership@gmail.c om |
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By: kerdieh
21/05/2009
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Mardale,
No, I didn't vote Act because Rodney went after Winnie when no one else would. that was just something that I respected at the time and earned Act a little cred in my books.
I voted act because they represented an ideal that Labour used to but hasn't for a while. that being the idea that the road to prosperity is paved with hard work and that the states purpose is to provide a level playing field in which we can all persue our own goals with as little interference as possible.
The welfare state exists as a meeans to help those who genuinely need our help, and pblic services should be run as efficently as possible, not be a catchment ground for those who could not succeed in the private sector. I have personally worked in both so feel strongly on that one.
the also have a large emphasis on personal responsibility and accountability and a firm view on law and order. I like the fact that one of their MP's is from the sensible sentencing trust, who I have a lot of time for.
also after 9 years of inefficient use of public funds I felt itr was time for a more business minded presence in parliament. I'm not sure I'd want an ACT majority govt, but I'm certainly pleased they are part of the National coalition and are represented. |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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kerdieh - Have you seen the movie "Sicko" my Mike Moore? It is worth a watch as we see the National / ACT government move forward. When watching it don't think about this term of government as an action term - more like a soften the ground for the next term of government if they get one.
New Zealand First also believes in rights with responsibility but I think you will find that ACT takes that attitude much farther to the right that is comfortable for the majority of the population. My concern with the extremes of ACT policy is that firstly they just don't make sense to me - the level of taxation that they suggestion and at the same time saying that individuals will be able to afford the same level of health care and so on just doesn't add up for me. I am very aware that even though my husband and I are on healthy incomes by national standards if we needed a heart operation tomorrow we would not be able to fund it - now can we currently afford the premiums from private health providers for two adults and three children.
Again I suggest you watch the Mike Moore movie - it provides serious food for thought.
Have a good night |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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sorry that should read - "nor can we currently afford".
I would like to point out here that this is not a "spending money on other things situation". We have one thing on HP, we drive second hand under $2000 each cars, We don't have the latest flat screen tv, ours kids do not have the latest of everything as they keep telling us. We live within our means, pay our mortgage and avoid debt. We are happy with our standard of living but there is not the extra to pay for the above if we were forced into a situation of having to provide that for ourselves. |
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By: kerdieh
21/05/2009
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Mardale,
fair point on Act's policies. I currently have private medical insurance for me and my wife, costs me about $100/month. Not the greatest cover but pretty substantial.
I don't want to see a mobve to an unregulated health market usch as the US. Here in Nz there is a control element in Southern Cross. They are a not for Profit organisation and are therefore not driven by the need to pillage the market for the most possible. i believe that they are the sole reason that medical insurance in Nz is reasonably cheap.
Kiwibank provides a similar control mechanism for the banking industry and I believe State does the same in the general insurance market. State and Kiwibank as SOE's (State still is isn't it?) have a different mandate that other businesses and provide an means of keeping competition at a realistic level to prevent the gouging that goes on in other markets.
This kind of "free market with a twist" is the kind of model I can see value in. Many do not like ACT as they see them as right wing radicals that want to sell everything to the highest bidder and turn us into the USA on a smaller scale. I see them differently, and as I said, I like their focus on presonal responsibility and accountability.
ACT have been given their one big chance to prove themselves in this term. It remains to be seen what they will do with it. |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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Kerdieh. I appreciate that you have given thought to where you placed your vote and while it is not where I placed mine that is what I love about being here. We're allowed too with no drama.
Yes we shall see how it all goes over the next three years. Obviously I still see a place for New Zealand First but that will be up to the New Zealand public in 2011 - alot can happen between then and now.
All the best to you and yours. |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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kerdieh. Sorry to go on but you got me thinking so I though I would check it out.
Firstly another triumph of the great SOE sell-off was State Insurance, it is now just another insurance company.
Secondly Southern Cross Insurance in September 2008 announced a net profit for the year to June 30th of 31.8 million. It is listed as a non-profit organisation which is interesting and I will look into it further but apparently they were able to make that profit because, and I quote "our claims-to-premium ration was slightly lower than average". In their credit apparently they held or lowered premiums for some 500,000 members from May of 2008 apparently. Did you notice it? |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
21/05/2009
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| Power Companies - Mr Brownlee really needs to figure out what he wants. First he calls the power companies in to say that they better not drop their profits and then he warns them they better not put up their prices. I am a little sus here - I have a feeling that something is not quite what it seems in this report and that there is going to be a call to privatise these companies in the interest of driving prices down - you know more competition in the market place. How about we just tell them you can act like a non-profit organisation for the benefit of the country - would that work? |
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By: mardale@xtra.co.nz
22/05/2009
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| Morning All. Crisp here this morning but the sun is out. |
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