By: paul.fraser@xtra.co.nz
18/11/2008
9:36 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| The most important time for a childs growth and learning are the very early years and they are protected by law from certaim things until they reach a certain age, for very good reason .. eg (and some ages may not be 100% but you get the point) car licence 15, vote 18, buy alcohol 20, cigarettes 18, gun licence 18 .. religion is the cause of thousands of death every year, ruins family relationships and is one of the biggest scams of all time, yet we allow anyone from birth to be taken along by there parents and others to religious meetings at clubrooms where they are absolutely brainwashed .. there should be an age restriction on this so that at some point they are able to make there own choice whether they want to be involved .. by getting to them when they are so young they grow up believing in something that can ruin their life |
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By: dodgey33
18/11/2008
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| <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,yaaaaaw wwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn>>>>>> >>>>> |
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By: dirtysouthagain
18/11/2008
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| Totally agree Paul, I would also add that given the extreme violence, debauchery, sickness, and evil written in the bible that this should have a "R" rating and not be available to children. |
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By: tokoroajaq
18/11/2008
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| Hmmm interesting theories. And yet the flip side is that the youth groups and sunday schools keep many kids from drugs and alcohol problems and helps them with friendships. |
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By: haahaa73
18/11/2008
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| and whatever would the clergy do without a selection of choir boys? Might have them masquerading as truancy officers... |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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| Paul - chose to raise your kids as you wish. My parents raised me with a sense of right and wrong, hope, love and thoughtfulness... through a religion. I was not brainwashed, nor as I grow was I forced to stay, I was able to make my own choice, through my own study. I think its trite and unfair that you lump a few fanatics and people that are a little crazy in the same basket as people who are just trying to give their kids balance in life and a strong moral foundation on which to grow. |
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By: paul.fraser@xtra.co.nz
18/11/2008
10:21 am Yahoo! Profile:
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m5m1ley .. "My parents raised me with a sense of right and wrong, hope, love and thoughtfulness "
and your parents would have done a great job, those are attributes that everyone should have, but .. that's nothing to do with religion, that's just good common principles .. you don't need to belong to a religious club to be taught them or to use them |
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By: raynbowwitch
18/11/2008
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I wonder if the christian bible were to be submitted to a publisher today whether or not it would be published?
And if so under which classification?
Fiction, non fiction?
SciFi or pornography?
Fanasty or historical?
My son stirred things up one night on a chat room where he suggested Maccabees 1 and 2 as a good evenings reading to a young christian bible study group.
If you don't know your bible look those chapters up.
Warning don't eat before reading!
I also wonder at how many other religious books ie the koran or torah etc would pass muster today. |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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| Paul - Granted, my point was that they chose to do it through religion... it was the responsibility of my parents to raise me as they saw fit. If you intend to say that a parent can't raise a child in a religion (that is not harmful to them) then you are taking away what a parent is intrusted to do. Should you also dictate how a parent raises a child in what they wear, what they watch, what they do with their time? Should we just send our kids off to boarding school and let the state dictate how and what a child should know and learn? While I appreciate that there are most certainly some bad seeds out there, there are also some good ones. (I would just like to say that my tone is not an angry one - soemtimes people get all up in arms because through words like this, you can't read tone, so I'm saying that my tone is simply one of discussion :-)) |
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By: pigpot2007
18/11/2008
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m5m1ley .. "My parents raised me with a sense of right and wrong, hope, love and thoughtfulness "
and your parents would have done a great job, those are attributes that everyone should have, but .. that's nothing to do with religion, that's just good common principles .. you don't need to belong to a religious club to be taught them or to use them
WELL SAID PAUL FRASER!!!!!!!!! |
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By: lorakapel
18/11/2008
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| I agree with you totally m5m, I was raised in a somewhat similar way and I attended private schools that were religious based Diocesan and Queen Victoria. I appreciate my upbringing and feel it contributed to me being a good person and even when I have strayed from being a good person it has been those foundations that have always brought me back. I havent attended church in years other than in times of mourning so its not like Im a basher of any kind either. I just think its nice to have something to steady you and someone else to talk to eg: your god when you are in need. |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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| Hello, Mr Pigpot, I expected to see you here soon :) - hopefully you can refrain from getting personal (although in your defence, some people do clearly ask for it!). I just wish that people would stop lumping all religion together, as though they were all the same, they aren't. |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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| Lora, I'm glad you see where I'm coming from. I'm also very thankful in the way I was raised and what I have learnt in my life, and I for one will raise my kids the same way. |
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By: lorakapel
18/11/2008
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| And I feel that alot of people without religious guidance dont know how to be moral and do unto others as they would to themselves, its mainly through finding religion that people who have lead destructive lives then change and try to turn their lives around. I would hope that religion is never age restricted. |
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By: pigpot2007
18/11/2008
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Hi mm5m1ley, Yes indeed I shall refrain from insulting you as I will anyone as long as their posts are as courteous as yours.
All religion are the same in so much as you are hoping thtough faith and belief that when your life over there is something else and it is not the end.
The reason why you do not wish to be at the end is due to the fact you FEAR the end. Whilst at church you are instilled with FEAR that if you do not accept Christ as you saviour you will go to hell.
I do not fear this. So I have no NEED for a god of any sorts as I see the futility of its worship.
Cheers. |
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By: pigpot2007
18/11/2008
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Yes lora I know I am a moral person and follow no religious code. I have known many moral muslims and hindus and some immoral Christians. Does this make one God better than anothers.
The varying religious people will all say theirs is the best.
No we have an argument like in Israel the other day between different sects of Christianity.
Then we have a war.
Now we are living in this very unstable world because of it.
It being the UNPROVABLE god.
No thankyou. |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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Thank you for your courtesy Pigpot, I'm sure we can keep it this way.
Actually, I don't beleive in hell. Hell is not a word that is found in the bible. I beleive that when we die, we return to the ground (to dust). I do not fear death, I'm was not (am not) taught to fear death. I know it is, for now, a natural part of life.
However, the hope I have is that at His appointed time God will see fit to restore earth to its original form, and do as he promised - i.e. that the meek shall inherit the earth. |
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By: lorakapel
18/11/2008
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| Def' dont agree with you there pigp but perhaps you were always fearful of religion yourself to offer these points up. Cant do it right so I wont do it at all. If you believe in god as do I, I have come to the assumption that he loves me no matter what and that I will always have his forgiveness. Therefor I have nothing to fear - as I said I dont even attend church. |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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| Just a thought (again, not an angry tone ;-)) Not all religions start, or even participate in wars. In fact many people have been executed for refusing to pick up arms. |
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By: robpatsy@xtra.co.nz
18/11/2008
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| the word religion comes from the latin religare, it means to bond, or join together in a situation where it is benefical to all,that includes church, school , rugby,and especially home life so i think you may have a problem there somewhat |
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By: lorakapel
18/11/2008
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| To me god is god, whatever you may call him he is your god. He will probably never be proven its just a way of life some people have chosen, I am on the outer of this relm as I have probably made my vision of god suit me, all I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with religion. Extremist will always exsist but that is more a war of hate, not religion. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
18/11/2008
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Let's apply your reasons for rejecting the teaching of religion to other 'belief systems'.
Atheism would be immediately ruled out on the basis of it being the inspiration for the atrocities of Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler, to name but a few.
The wider activities of the environmental movement would be untold becasue of the deceit of those involved in the global warming scam. And the teaching of evolution would be outlawed because of the hoaxes of Piltdown Man and many others.
We have been removing God from western society for decades; the resultant social disintegration is the price we all pay. |
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By: m5m1ley
18/11/2008
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| As and aside - some people also make money their god, or material things their religion - would that be outlawed to? As the person who posted the meaning (smart thinker that one) so aplty put it. |
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By: moyraspeir
18/11/2008
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| If what you say is true then the child should stay home in their room, on their own while their parents go out to their "religious" whatevers. - Kids should go nowhere (you never know what they might be "brainwashed" into at kindy or school) A very small % of our society go overboard in some areas but loving Whanau do care about their children's well-being. As children grow up and become adults, they can choose whatever they want - please allow them to have something to choose from. Your way seems to continue to take responsibility from parents, giving the state more and more control. Ah well,just an observation. |
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By: raynbowwitch
18/11/2008
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Religion was the basis for the crusades.
Hitler had a belief system it was based on Aryanism or a teutonic revialism.
Stalin decried Eastern or Russian orthodox but worshipped at the shrine of communism and power.
I tend to disagree with you deeccc4 about the fact that removing God from western society is the cause of social disintegration.
Socoal distingration is more complex than just relieing on religious teachings.
If I had to name a starting point for modern socialtial breakdown it would be the Industrial revolution. With its break up of families and the advent of formal "schools" established to provide "literate" workers.
The work ethic postulated the glory of work at the expense of family and it has continued on for decades.
The other thing that has contributed to a break down of moral social behaviour is the disinclination of people to allow others to have differing views, with allowing others to speak their piece and their truth.
And not be threatened within ones own self and allowing others to hold their views without losing ones own. |
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