By: m.aislabie@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
12:47 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Sorry for confusion,
If you spare a guilty man the punishment he deserves because of grace, then good for you.
If you spare a guilty man the punishment he deserves because you are just too lazy and can't be bothered bring him to justice,then shame on you. |
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By: magewizard@rocketmail.com
15/01/2009
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I would rather spare a guilty man the punishment he deserves to spare an innocent man the punishment he dosen't deserve.
If this is grace, so be it! |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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| "To err is human, to forgive-divine"! :) |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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Humankind has the perpensity to make many many mistakes that is the reality for all, however the ability to forgive one for such a mistake, could be seen as a learning curve, how to forgive? and not forget! Is it necessary to hold on and bear grudges for such mistakes? e.g. War and the God-Jesus debate, does god exist? Was Jesus real or just a figment of ones imagination, whether they be a believer, a christian, agnostic or an atheist?
Individuality is great, you are born of your Mother and Father, that is real, however some do seek out spiritual guidance in many different ways, if this is helful in order for one to forgive and forget, what is so wrong with it? the belief in a higher power per se', each too their own and a respect of ones beliefs is a common courtesy, as a non believer in the Jesus being the son of man by way of the immaculate conception or (deception) does not mean to say that his existence may not have been real, - as a man that is- perhaps a politician! who knows, but that is what the Bible says!
The power of the word and all therein-the Bible, must be something to it, as the debate still continues :) Have a nice day all! Pai Marire ( blessings and peace to all) :) |
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By: easypeasysaintandgreavsie
15/01/2009
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mike_f596 wrote - "back to reality .. i have observed deecee quoting from many sources in a balanced and educated manner with a high level of respect for others in hearing them out albeit while disagreeing with them .With out such opposing and differing views there would not be such a thing as "debate ".
hence if you find it oh so boring .. feel free to abstain from visiting this thread -
or not ."
I shall not. Thankyou. |
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By: mike_f596
15/01/2009
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| haha not a problem . |
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By: mike_f596
15/01/2009
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marjar .. on forgiveness , there is no instruction in the bible to "forget" - it is not feasible to ask a person who has had a serious hurtful wrong done them ..to forget .
however ,once the choice of forgiveness is set in motion the reason to recall and relive the memory diminishes , which brings about a passing of the intensity of the emotions involved .
A person may never forget the fact that some thing happened , but through forgiveness they will be set free from those crushing depressing hurtful emotions that the crime against them caused.there by being able to remember , yet still smile . |
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By: mike_f596
15/01/2009
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mage : you wrote
"I would rather spare a guilty man the punishment he deserves to spare an innocent man the punishment he dosen't deserve.
If this is grace, so be it!"-
the reasoning for the stance is clear , however , the only innocent one "chose" to lay down his life for the rest .. graciously . |
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By: magewizard@rocketmail.com
15/01/2009
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Mike.
that comment flowed over from a discussion in the political arena re the death sentence.
But I am sure Jesus will thank you for the plug. |
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By: mike_f596
15/01/2009
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| tut tut those overflow discussions make things so confusing haha |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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| thanks mikef596 i do realise that about the forgetting, the post was put up there to add to the post, like to get views etc, all good Mike, learning is a good fact of life and the lessons therein! :) |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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hi easypeasy...
you said <<Problem is deecee, all you ever keep quoting from is "THE BIBLE", Qoute from another source.>>
If you have followed the thread from the outset, you will see that I generally refrain from quoting from the Bible. However the recent posts have been in direct response to mages question "How do you know the Bible is the word of God?", and a number of alleged contradictions. I think most would agree it would be somewhat silly to try to refute these contradictions without reference to the book that contained them! |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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hi mage
Issue 11: How old was Ahaziah?
Key verse: 2 Kings 8:26: "Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king."
Alleged contradiction: 2 Chronicles 22:2.
This is one of a small number of copyists errors. The correct age of Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem is 22. 2 Kings 8:17 tells us that Ahaziah's father Joram ben Ahab was thirty-two when he became king and he died eight years later, at the age of forty. So, Ahaziah could not have been forty-two at the time of his father's death at age forty.
The difference in ages is 20 years. The system of number notation used by the Jews at the time of Ezra consisted of horizontal hooks, each one representing one decade. If one or both of the hooks were smudged or flaked off a papyri, then the dates would be off by ten years or a factor of ten etc.
No contradiction here. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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hi mage
Issue 12: Did Michal have children?
Key verse: 2 Samuel 6:23: “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death."
Alleged contradiction: 2 Samuel 21:8
Saul had two daughters: Merab and Michal. 1 Samuel 14:49, says "Now the sons of Saul were Jonathan, and Ishui, and Melchishua: and the names of his two daughters were these; the name of the firstborn Merab, and the name of the younger Michal." Since 2 Samuel 6:23 states that Michal had no children, we can conclude that this is a copyist error that should have read Merab. "Many scholars substitute Merab for Michal in 2 Sam. 21:8, regarding it as an ancient scribal error, saying that after her death her sons were hanged to atone for Saul’s slaughter of the Gibeonites, a breaking of Israel's covenant." (The New Bible Dictionary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.) 1962). |
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By: magewizard@rocketmail.com
15/01/2009
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Not saying too much today too busy, but this one sort of hits you in the eye.
How is it that in one breath the Bible is inerrant and the inspired word of god and in the next there is a "copyist error "
Come on! How bloody convienent.
Did god forget to look after that bit, is there any more, or are you not sure.
Thats it for me outa here. |
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By: easypeasysaintandgreavsie
15/01/2009
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I agree deecee, yes it would be foolish but you never provide any evidence that backs up the Bible but is of a different source and still written by one of Jesus' contemporaries that walked up "THE TIME" of Jesus.
The reason is simple, there was no-one and there is no other evidence for Jesus' existence other than the Bible.
No-one wrote a single thing about the "supposed most important person to ever walk the earth."
HOW VERY ODD!!!!!!!! :) |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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| very odd, so even it up than :) that may help..some :) |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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hi mage...well I told you we'd get into textual criticism eventually, and the reason was I knew these copy errors would come up.
As you have seen for my posts so far, there is a far degree of dishonesty from the source of your posts. Regrettably this is not uncommon. Selective misquoting, failure to quote full passages, and quoting out of context are tactics frequently employed by Bible critics. Another tactic used is to appeal to ignorance of Textual Criticism. In brief, textual criticism is the process of identifying and removing transcription errors from the texts of ancient m'scripts. Because ancient m'scripts were copied by hand, the copyists made errors or alterations. What a textual critic does is to reconstruct the original text ('autograph') from m'script copies that exist, or as much of the original m'script as exists. Differences between the same passages in different m'scripts are called variants. The most common method of textual criticism is to categorise m'scripts into family trees by analyzing their location of discovery, jars found in, type of papyri written on, type of ink used, style of writing, etc. Daughter m'scripts can be matched very accurately to father m'scripts, and so on.
From my original argument, I posted a comparison between NT m'scripts and those of other ancient writings. This showed that there were a far larger number of m’scripts, much closer in time to the actual events, than for other ancient writings. What this shows is the enormous amunt of m’script support for the NT documents, and material from which textual critics can work. The point of this is that the more m’scripts available, the more accurate the final material.
Contd... |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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| With this type of method the New Testament documents in particular can be reconstructed with an incredible accuracy, to the point where the New Testament is said to be approximately 99.5% textually pure. This means that of all the m'scripts in existence, they agree completely 99.5% of the time. Of the variants that occur, most are easily explainable and very few have any effect on the meaning of passages. In all, no New Testament doctrine is affected by any variant reading. (http://www.carm.org/bibl e/textualexample.htm) |
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By: orange_roughie
15/01/2009
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| i dont |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
15/01/2009
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hi easy...when you say I never provide evidnece that backs up the Bible, I don't know what you mean. I've provided several examples of secular historical and archeological support for the bible. Let me know if you've missed it and I can repost.
And I'm not sure either what you mean about no-one writing about Jesus. We've covered this as well. Here's a summary of what I have previously posted here:
Non-biblical rferences to Jesus: Josephus (37 to 100AD), Thallus (50 to 75AD), Tacitus (56 to 117AD), Pliny the Younger (61 to 113AD), Suetonius(69 to 140AD), Lucian (125 to 180AD), Mara Bar-Serapion, The Babylonian Talmud (that refers to the crucifixion of Jesus), The Gnostic gospels.
Non-biblical references to Jesus's divinity before Constantine: Ignatius of Antioch (c110 AD), Epistle to Diognetus (c125 AD), Melito of Sardis (d. c190 AD), Justin Martyr (c155 AD), Irenaeus (c185AD), Tertullian (c200AD), Clement of Alexandria (c210 AD) |
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By: easypeasysaintandgreavsie
15/01/2009
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Thankyou deecee for your reply but you have still to post the information that is required.
You are posting sources concerning people who came AFTER Jesus not OF his time!!!
The reason why you will not be able to do so is that NOBODY did.
And this is the strange thing, there were credible historians around Jesus' time and they did not write or record a single thing about him.
Cheers. |
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By: orange_roughie
15/01/2009
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| i dont |
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By: dirtysouthagain
15/01/2009
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yep, well the closest would be Josephus (37ad), and his so called words about Jesus have been disputed for almost 300 years.
The next being at least 16 years after the death of Jesus. Why was no one writing about him "at the time"? Running around turning water into wine, born by divine intercourse (I meant intervention), a teacher and doctor by the age of 12, and of course his resurrection??? Which was not written about PERIOD, by any source but the Bible, and why would everyone wait soo long after his death before writing about him? |
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By: easypeasysaintandgreavsie
15/01/2009
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Exactly dirtysouth!!!
Where is the evidence!!! |
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