By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
5:21 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Ferric
Youve obviously got a spare computer that works ok. Too bad a power surge is not covered by insurance companies., but your way of thread if thats all you want to say on here. Why not grab a beer for breakfast and try again. |
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By: ferrico2
30/08/2008
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Having posted that bit of junk, I felt it important to bring to the discussion the small question of the maneuverability of a ship with square sails. The popular image of viking ships (i.e.: Hagar the Horrible) doesn't give one the impression of fore's'als, gibs, etc that would allow much precision sailing.
As such, merely checking the tradewind directions should be enough to clarify how (indeed 'if') vikings could have made landfall in NZ. |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Ferrico 2;
The notebook self destructing could possibly be due to the retention of somewhat subjective and mind numbing responses that have flooded said notebook, plainly speaking rather "orgasmic" if you yourself are able to "disseminate fact from fiction", very sexy dont you think?? LOL!! thanks Wasul> |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Wasullivan:
I do apologise, but in all honesty I am a little bit lost about the last post you sent - " recent phenomena...... ,
whose face? the adventurous spirit is possessed by all, what exactly is it that I am missing. I have already added the human component. |
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By: ferrico2
30/08/2008
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was:
In my inimitable style, I was merely lampooning the seriousness of "rules of engagement" by implying a "short circuit in reality" whereby text taken from the weekly 60's television show "Mission Impossible" reproduced repeatedly in this thread had, I purported, caused the destruction of my computer. In reality, no damage has occurred. It was just another flight of fancy.
Perhaps the link was too thin. My apologies to any who missed the point because of my failure.
In the meantime, has anyone considered the undertitle to this debate?...
"Vikings - Boyracers of the High Seas" :-)
I'm outta here. Good morning all! |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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ferric
Im glad you found a lager. Heres cheers to you for such an indepth contribution to this otherwise tenuous thread. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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morning team... Mar_ja, I managed to keep Wasullivan entertained a bit over night (do you ever sleep buddy?)
Was thinking about the winds... oh and the rat... Polynesian discovery/settlement often went "into" the seasonal wind, which allowed for an easy return should the adventure proof fruitless... NZ was a bit of exception to that rule... the reality is that any travelling into the Pacific would generally lead anywhere (hundreds of over islands) but to NZ... and what good red blooded vicking would be in a hurry to leave all those half naked women in the tropical pacific in a hurry??? European discoverers have always had a problem with falling under the spell of these sirens of the Pacific...
The other is the rat... now even the NZ skeptic society has a problem with the Polynesian rat, because there is evidence it was here up to 2000 years ago... and the biggest problem with that is that a trip to NZ on drift wood is very hard to believe... so how the hell did it get here???
Two interesting thoughts for the morning and I know that they probably contradict each other and provide arguments both ways... but hey... Just been thinking... |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Abu2;
Good morning, Lol I sleep, dont know about Wasullivan though, keep him entertained though, the voyage on the high seas may get choppy and then settle, all good though. |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Mar
Yes, you did add the human component, but most others here have not, since they suggest that, no one in those olden times, merely sailed off into the sunset to see what was there. But I say why not. I mean. If we have people doing all sorts of crazy nutter things today. Then why didnt Vikings, or others, do crazy nutter things thousands of years ago? Unless of course, the doing of crazy nutter things, is a relatively new phenomenon. |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Abu
Yes, and if certain wild life, like a rat, could have got to NZ, on top of floating debris, all the way from Australia, on the predominant South Westerly winds that come from there, to here. Then its not too far to stretch the imagination a bit further to think of someone, pre Polynesian who may have discovered NZ first, using sail, but maybe they either died here because it was such a baron place to live at that time, or died trying to escape from here, and which is why no one in their home land has any record of the efforts, because the never returned home. |
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By: felicitybaird
30/08/2008
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There is evidence of vikings and I have seen it. Ever been in the depth of te papa, it's a very interesting place to visit.
I once studied maori rongoa rakau with a man from the taupo regions. A man of some standing in the local maori there. He showed me a viking helmet that had been passed down to hime. There is also well known phoneician text that has been found in the north island, do a Google search for "phoniecian nz" there is also the evidence known of as the kaimanawa wall (not sure of spelling)which although is in dispute I believe as do many archeologists it is man made. Some thing which the Maori as we now history would not have had the tools nor the resources to create, I wonder though mozzarella what exactally you are searching for. If you let me know, I would be willing to help. :-) |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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abu and mar
I am an invalid beneficiary till I die. That means, I do not follow the average, sheep type, convention of sleeping within certain hours, or eating, just because its breakfast time, or lunch time, or dinner time. My time, measured in years, or months, or days, is mine, to do with as I see fit. Thats the beauty of being retired. |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Falicitybaird
The Master of this thread might just give you an A for that effort. If I was the thread Master, I would for sure. |
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By: rawirirei
30/08/2008
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People, if anyone arrive before maori they must have bought seeds and animals with them as voyages going into the unknown would have had and they would have survived and lived very well. they would have landed on the coast in the days when food and building materials were everywhere. Why would you have freah water, fish, shellfish, birds and really good soil. With the treaty settlements these things will always come up because people studing NZ history can say that anything is possible and suggest anything but they cant prove it and it really cant be disproved so the debate will continue forever.
I remember when i was at school a so called scientist claimed he had evidence the first people here were SE asia because bones were found in a cave. According to him maori had buried there dead because thats what they do now. Of course if he had asked maori he would know that is how it was done in the old days, burial came with europeans. |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Wasulivan:
the lemming effect lol! Sweet as, just live each day as it comes, for you will be dead for more than a million years.
Enjoy your day, be it hours, be it minutes, seconds etc.... |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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rawiri rei:
dont get confused with Noahs Ark> lol! |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Rawirirei
What kind of a Maori are you?. I am a fifth generation Honki, and I know that early Maori buried their dead in caves. So what are you talking about? Also, have you ever tried to live in NZ bush with nothing but your wits to keep you alive? I have, and our NZ bush, even today with all the pigs and goats and deer running around, is not a good place to be, unless you know exactly what to do. Otherwise you will die from exposure or starvation in that order. NZ is not Africa with lots of wild game to eat, or Hawaii with pineapples and coconuts etc that grow wild. NZ bush is some of the worst bush in the world to try to survive in. It would have been worse 300 years ago, unless you knew exactly what you can eat, and what you cant eat, and when its ok to do either. Or what medicine you could find in the bush to cure your ails.
Its time for hats off to the Maori people who found ways to survive. In a land, and at a time, NZ didnt really have much to offer. Its little wonder they resorted to eating each other eh.
Maori did not build fortified Pas to keep out the Pakeha. They built Pas to keep their dwindling food resources safe from other tribes trying to steal it from them. And thats the desperate situation Maori where in already, when the first pakeha settlers arrived. In effect the first settlers had lot to offer Maori. And the Maori of that day knew that. Pakeha pulled Maori from the stone age, to the present age, so now you can drive to a hospital and get fixed up. And thats why most of us today, get on as bothers and sisters and mates.
And to me thats what our treaty is all about. Kia ora. |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Mar
Now what are you on about this morning ? I never mentioned lemmings. They are like sheep. And the only way I like sheep is with mint sauce. |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| shorn and shaved sheep I hope, or maybe Bo Peeps Sheep? |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| Na. Just cooked is fine enough |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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was
Kia kaha bro... day by day, week by week, it don't matter... just be happy...
Now Rawirirei makes a good point about the food...
We know from record that the Phonicians were the first known people to circumnavigate Africa, and they did so over a period of years, stopping occasionally to plant and harvest crops... which is why a lot of these plants grow wild all around the coast of africa, even though they are not necessarily native to the continent... So if that is their usual "MO" how come no sign of such plants here???
THe vickings on the other hand used to haul live stock with them, and their "saga" tradition includes the need to care for and protect these animals for future welfare of the people on any discovered new lands...
Even Cook, deliberately brought live stoke with him and released pigs and goats on lands he discovered...
It is a seafaring tradition and it does defy logic that the Phonicians and Vickings came here and NO plants or animal life can be shown to back up their arrival... |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
The preposition of this thread is that the Ancient Celts/Vikings visited NZ sometime around 1200 AD as suggested by Martin Dourtre. Refer to page 1.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to use reason and intelligence to argue the point one way or the other.
I don't actually care what your point is. I only care that you make an effort to argue it intelligently.
With that in mind please observe the following rules of engagement:
* Do not make personal attacks since this only proves
that you have run out of anything intelligent to say.
* Make an effort to argue your point, don't just push
your own agenda with pointless conjecture.
* Try to use as much factual information as possible i.e.
something that can be corroborated.
* Respect other peoples opinions. |
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By: ferrico2
30/08/2008
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| Well, there goes my computer, smoking away again... SHEEE-IT! |
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By: astronoddy
30/08/2008
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| Preposition: noun: a word that defines or describes relationship between nouns or and pronouns ("the television is on the table"). |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Abu
Thank wikas, we are back to the rules of debate. Phew. Thats all good so far. But hey, Africa has a different climate to NZ. For example it is not possible for dope to grow 6 foot high in NZ if it is growing wild. At best it grows as a scrawny weed without lots of human care and fertilizer.
Second phase- -- - .. --- . Why does everyone have to assume the Vikings or anyone else had intentions of creating new colonies. Why is it not possible that a few Norse or other blokes simply got together to see what was on the other side of the rainbow? Or do adventurous, Huckleberry Finn type characters, only exist in the nineteenth century? Fact is Humans do some crazy things to conquer the unknown. So why didnt some of the old Celts, or others, do the same? In other words, In my day I have, havent you? If so, then why not them? |
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