By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
8:36 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Wasullivan:
Back in the day there used to be a programme called W three,( who, what, where etc ), headed by Lockwood Smith before he became a politician, lol and the connection is that he may possible be of Celtic descent, just a theory, no proof though. Just to bring it back to topic before you get another F to go with your other F and to add to your A, how that? Are you happy> |
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By: mike_f596
30/08/2008
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| ouhh marjar .. i think you just broke the rules agaun already haha |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| mike for that remark you can have the whole alphabet, lol! |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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wasullivan
In response to your earlier posts about some "HuckleBerry" like Vikings finding NZ, I would conceed that yes, they possessed the technology and resources, so yes, I concede that the possibility was there, sadly the evidence is not, and that really is the key to this thread.
Yes, there are many varied reasons for humans to migrate, and curiosity may be one of them, but as far as I know, there is no known record of humans attempting something on the scale of this alledged migration until the mid to late 1500's.
The point has been made that even if the seafearers set out for unknown lands and perished along the way, then some record of their depature should be available.
More importantly, some record of their visits should exist along the path they took to get here, since we can trace viking migration to north america, central europe, parts of russia, and greenland/iceland on the basis of what they left behind on those migrations.
I doubt that it could have happend as is alledged by those that push the Ancient Celtic/Viking theory because the theory doesn't fit established patterns of human migration for the period.
There are going to be months in the northern and southern hemisphere where it would simply be suicidal to set out to sea, and remember, viking ships were not designed for long haul, they were built for speed, they were not covered so everybody on board would be exposed to the elements of weather, the extremes of heat and cold etc, they are not known to have been built as multiple decked vessels that could hold supplies of food and/or water or livestock for weeks or perhaps months on end, so they had to have stopped somewhere for supplies, to make repairs etc...
It just defies logic and reason to suggest that they didn't stop somewhere along the way. |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
8:59 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Mar
I have not ever received an F from this thread master. He is obviously still undecided as to how to categorise such obvious talent as I possess. There might even be a formal dinner in the offing to mark the occasion where I get presented the Nobel prize for noodle literacy. And guess what? You may all be invited to clap for me when I receive it. But I digress, Lockwood Smith is obviously a fraud otherwise he would be as famous as Houdini. |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| houdini, a true illusionist how appropriate, but alas you digress off the topic, so now you get the alphabet like Mikef 596 lol!! |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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wasullivan
Check page 9 for your "official" grade ;-) |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Mar
What on earth are you on about? I told the thread Master he can shove the alphabet system back on page 2 or 3, in favour of getting a Nobel prize for effort. The fact Im still awaiting the outcome is neither here nor there. |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| Just jostling Wasullivan, much like the Celtic/Viking may have, just a theory though no proof. Jostling though is a human condition, and no we dont need grades to in order to achieve anything, as long as we are happy that is all that matters. |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Yea ok so I just went back to page 9 and guess what everyone. I got a lousy A. Check this out.
wasullivan
For the record, I think your last post is your best to date on this topic. Well thought out, cohesive and coherent.
A good case and worthy of debate. You get an 'A'.
Yea, wow whoopedy doo. ---- Wheres my free lunch is what I want to know. |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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wasullivan
Alas, I have no free lunch. Would a beer suffice? |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Cheesecake
Provided you brewed the wart yourself that will be perfect. Cheers. |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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mar_ja
re: ancient celts/vikings using the stars to find nz
I doubt this very much. Firstly because the MO of navigation in 1200 in the west was to keep in sight of land, and while celestial navigation was certainly used, it was not a perfected technique by any stretch of the imagination.
Also, the celestial alignment of stars differs in the northern and southern hemispheres, and since there is no known record of viking settlements in the southern hemisphere how can we expect that they would have the knowledge to use this information since it stands to reason that they would have had to spend enough time in this part of the world in order to know which stars to use? |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| glad to read you are happy Wasulllivan, a beer as well and good on your for your A grading lol. Life is truly looking up for you, see there is always something positive to celebrate. I am just assuming that I have got a gold medal Lol!!! |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Mozarella:
the mere exercise of connecting fact to a theory would mean relying on actual documented information, it is a theory we are speaking of in regards to the Celtic/Viking debate isnt it?
Having to prove that they may have arrived here would obviously mean trying to use historical fact to give the possible trek creedence.
Do I possible believe it could have happened, maybe, but there is not sufficient evidence or proof until some can be obtained, is this a fact? |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| typo - do i possibly believe |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| as for the reference to astrology, is it not possible that weather patterns can change star alignment, or create the illusion that things are not what they should be in the two different hemispheres, or are these things an actual and re occur all of the time. Do you get my drift? Certain lunar patterns in regards too the moon etc are recorded anyway through meteorology, so why must it be assumed that things we witness today would have been the same back in 1200 AD? |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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mar_ja
Either I have confused you with my last post, or it was not clear enough, because your post has me quite confused!
Let me try again. As far as I know, maritime navigation in the middle ages still relied on sighting known reference points on land. People sailed along coastlines and used celestial navigation only for relatively short distances to known points of reference.
Given that the constellation of stars differs between the northern and southern hemispheres, how would the vikings know which stars to use in the southern hemisphere if they didn't settle down here long enough to aquire this knowledge? |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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mar_ja
For example, if your point of reference is the north star, then how would you expect to see if from the south pole since you cannot see through the earth?
I know we are not talking about north pole vs south pole in reference to this thread - I am just using it to illustrate a point. |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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mar_ja
"is it not possible that weather patterns can change star alignment"
No it is not - and I draw the line at that point. It is not open for debate as far as I'm concerned.
The weather does not influence cellestial bodies! |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Mozarella68:
The discounting you have done in regards to weather patterns because you believe that it is not possible, is leaving out an equation, but as you say it is not on the debate table.
What cannot be understood, should not be disregarded because it fits some sort of pre-concieved notion. And you are wrong, weather does influence change. |
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By: jonstammers
30/08/2008
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| Thanks everyone, this is the funniest thread I have read in ages . . . . come to think of it, my 5 year old son is laughing his head off at your inane posts as well . . . good on you, our education system is working, you are a pack of D I C K H E A D S who think you have something to say |
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By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| thank you johnstammers for your input to, I can understand why it seems like a funny thread, several of them are much the same, no offence DICKHEAD!! |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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jonstammers
Thanks for your worthless input. I actually doubt your 5 year old would understand the thread to be perfectly honest with you.
Just in case you decide to come back with something to offer, here are the "rules"
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
The preposition of this thread is that the Ancient Celts/Vikings visited NZ sometime around 1200 AD as suggested by Martin Dourtre. Refer to page 1.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to use reason and intelligence to argue the point one way or the other.
I don't actually care what your point is. I only care that you make an effort to argue it intelligently.
With that in mind please observe the following rules of engagement:
* Do not make personal attacks since this only proves
that you have run out of anything intelligent to say.
* Make an effort to argue your point, don't just push
your own agenda with pointless conjecture.
* Try to use as much factual information as possible i.e.
something that can be corroborated.
* Respect other peoples opinions. |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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mar_ja
I have to take a break - but I am not talking about weather! I'm talking about cellestial bodies i.e. planets, so I think you will have to come up with a rather brilliant arguement to convince me that the weather on earth influences the position of a star in outter space! |
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