By: mar_ja@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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fireangel:
thats cool! but do you have anything to add to the thread about the Celt/Viking theory? |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| my whakapapa? that's a very broad question. if you mean genealogy, i'm 100% pakeha 6th gen NZ |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| Not in proof, even though I am a decendant of the Viking. The only ones that I have heard of are the Spanish and the Phoenician. Hence why I mentioned them, even though you only wish to discuss celts |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| And I too am a 6th Generation NZer |
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By: rushjp@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| mozarella, I have read that book on ancient celtic n.zealand. It also near the back tells of thousands of skeletons of very tall beings 9-10feet tall, found in the caving systems and on the beach around that area. The maoris of the time of early 1800s said they were not of their people. |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| You are right about the skeletons, I forgot to mention them, but they are mentioned by Te Ata Awa elders of the last generation. They said that none of their peple were ever that tall. My husband is a decendant of Te Ata Awa. Why is it that DOC locks up these sites, as this shows that NZ is a lot older and holds valuable history for us all to embrace. |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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rushjp
Ok, so you read a book and there are "thousands of skeletons".
Sure there are, because they can be linked to...? Where? Mars?
Yes, the proof is in the "carving systems". Sure it is.
You get an F. Now go away and come back when you have something intelligent to say, or at least something that doesn't require me to belive your conspiracy theories.
You want a conspiracy? Guess who shot JFK? Go check it out. |
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By: mozzarella68
30/08/2008
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fireangel
Ditto for you. I have proof that there were people 15 feet tall that ate your 10 foot people.
Go away. |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| Settle down, no need to throw your toys out of the cot. I am saying what has been passed down. Why is it that you get you back out of joint? This is still a country of free opinion. |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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Reverend Richard Taylor wrote in 1855: 'Besides gods the natives believed in the existence of other beings, who lived in communities, built pas, and were occupied with similar pursuits to those of men. These were called Patu-paiarehe. Their chief residences were on the tops of lofty hills, and they are said to have been the spiritual occupants of the country prior to Maori, and to retire as they advance. The Wanganui natives state, that when they first came to reside on the banks of the river, almost all the chief heights were occupied by the Patu-paiarehe, who gradually abandoned the river, and that even until a few generations ago, they had their favourite haunts there. These may be accounts of an aboriginal race mixed with fable; there are several things to warrant the idea that the Maori were not the first inhabitants of the land.
The Patu-paiarehe were only seen early in the morning, and are represented as being white, and clothed in white garments of the same form and texture of their own; in fact, they may be called the children of the mist. They are supposed to be of large size, and may be regarded as giants, although in some respects they resemble our fairies. They are seldom seen alone, but generally in large numbers; they are loud speakers and delight in playing the putorino (flute); they are said to nurse their children in their arms, the same as Europeans and not carry them in the Maori style, on the back or hip. Their faces are papatea, not tattooed, and in this respect also, they resemble Europeans. They hold long councils, and sing very loud; they often go and sit in cultivation's, which are completely filled with them, so as to be frequently mistaken for a war party; but they never hurt the ground…
The belief in the Patu-paiarehe is very general; many have affirmed to me that they have repeatedly met with them. Albinos are said to be their offspring, and they are accused of frequently surprising women in the bush.' (see Articles from "Te Ika A M ... |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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Anyoned thought about this author - Martin Doutre???
Interestingly he has published a series of articles as well as this book... Mostly his objective seems to be to challenge any history that supports the Treaty of Waitangi and Maori Status as Tangata Whenua... The man has an obvious agenda!!!
His greates support seems to come from the www.kilts.co.nz site that has a diffinate agenda against anything remotely pro Maori... The articles on this site can only be described as racist and one sided... This site also has links to The One New Zealand Foundation, and the NZ National front... organisations we know that have a very clear anti Maori message...
Now I am not one to condem a person just by association, but these are not good friends to have, if you want to be taken seriously on any topic which impacts on history relating to Maori...
Just a thought... |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| Maori is a European word used to identify the indigenous people of the many nations that the Bristish Empire conquered and yet the Maori never called themselves as a Maori, they never identified as one people or one nation and even now those of the true old school still don't identify so called "Maori" as one people. They are identified as Te Ata Awa, Tainui, Ngati Porou, Nga Puhi etc etc. |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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on the patupaiarehe and other peoples here 'before maori',
tainui folklore tells some detailed stories of the patupaiarehe and their interactions with maori, including kidnapping and procreating. patupaiarehe are regarded as a mist-dwelling, fairy folk, who exist today.
as for whether there were patupaiarehe or other folk here before maori, in the case of tainui etc, of course there were other people here, who tainui people intermarried with. these original inhabitants were not faeries however, nor were they celts, phonecians, egyptians or even moriori. none of these poplations are identified by genetic (or ANY other) evidence. the original inhabitants were also from hawaiki, and were simply earlier groups who were the source populations for maori. |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| maori is not a european word. europeans can't even pronounce the word. maori means 'natural', as in the natural state, just like fresh clean water is 'wai maori'. it is a word maori use to say 'like us', which is why there was no need to use the word before the arrival of the pakeha. |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| i think you're thinking of 'aboriginal', fireangel |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| The word Maori is used in texts and documents by British explorers and Colonialists referring to locals of area's that they explored and inhabited; as was the word aboriginal. Some of these documents are over 300 years old and can be seen in many museums throughout the world. |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| In fact Charles Darwin uses the word Maori in some of his documents with regard to the theory of evolution |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| i would really love to see these documents |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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| Then work hard, save your pennies and travel the museums of the world, if thats what you're into. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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fireangel
One link, is all we need... One internet link that shows that;
"The word Maori is used in texts and documents by British explorers and Colonialists referring to locals of area's that they explored and inhabited... Some of these documents are over 300 years old "
I would love to see that... because if such a thing exists it would be on a site somewhere... |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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| fireangel had nowhere to go with any logic or sense, so she started suggesting the absurd just to get a reaction. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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adam_victoria
Yeah making stuff up is interesting, but this is a great one... like "hello" we wouldn't know this... hahaha |
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By: kev.meg.co@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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At the risk of getting another 'F' :)
I am surpised to see this still being discussed so earnestly. As far as I can see the only people who have an interest in pursuing the whole "someone was here first" theme are those that are resentful of the whole treaty process.
I say .. so what .. the Egyptians could have been here for all I care .. the treaty is between the people who WERE HERE and the people that came after them. That is my view from my 5th generation NZ'er of Celtic, French and Viking heritage perspective. |
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By: fireangel_st44
30/08/2008
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And this is why NZ is in the state it is in, because of the narrow minded finger pointing individuals with child like mentalities that wouldn't believe the truth if it came up and bit them on the backside. Most of the Museums in Britain have websites, I suggest you go looking for yourself. However, one mans truth is not necessarily another mans truth as can be seen in the politics of the world, religions and the wars that have taken place.
Quite clearly you both lack the open mind required to absorb knowledge in its true and pure form. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
30/08/2008
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fireangel_st44
Yep had a look and can't find a SINGLE reference to the use of the word Maori outside of NZ and the Cook Islands... so would love you to show us where you get your information from... I am really open minded to learning something new... and BOY would this be new... |
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