By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
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<<What you have been arguing all along is you are the one true faith...I have argued against that based on what you state is true. You cannot claim it is true just as I cannot claim my faith is true.>>
I argue that Christianity is the one true faith. That is my position, and I have supported it as to the existence of the Christian God, the reliability of the Bible, and the deity of Christ. And I have argued it based on Christianity being founded on verifiable historical truths not just metaphysical concepts.
An objective view of truth does not preclude me claiming exclusive truth; what it does do is to simply say I could be wrong. Under your subjective notion of truth, none of us are wrong, despite our mutually exclusive beliefs. And that is a nonsense.
<<My argument has been that ALL faith runs on BLIND TRUST. At the end of the day it is all that those of faith have until proven different.>>
Is this what you've been arguing all along Inbound? I don't think so.
What you've been arguing is that truth is a relative concept, determined by our particular knowledge at a particular time. As the illogic of this has slowly dawned on you, it is understandable you would seek to deflect the discussion.
And blind faith may be the basis for your beliefs, but it cetainly isn't the basis for Christian belief. If you believe it is, you deny the evidence of history, archaeology, science and the study of ancient literature, which all strongly support the authenticity of Christan belief. |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
1:49 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| ALL you have is BLIND TRUST as to the existence of your GOD like any other FAITH.....That is ABSOLUTE TRUTH....to differ from that is an ABSOLUTE LIE. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
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<<ALL you have is BLIND TRUST as to the existence of your GOD like any other FAITH.....That is ABSOLUTE TRUTH....to differ from that is an ABSOLUTE LIE.>>
Blind trust infers no evidence or logical argument whatsoever. If you were referring to the Hindu gods I would agree. But as to the Christian God, there is evidence, there is logical argument. Therefore faith in God is not blind trust. It is faith founded upon fact. |
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By: tellthetruth888
7/11/2009
2:54 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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And God spoke all these words:
"I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
"You shall have no other gods before me.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
"You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
Exodus 20: 1-7 |
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By: tellthetruth888
7/11/2009
2:59 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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God "will give to each person according to what he has done."
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
For God does not show favoritism.
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
Romans 2: 6-13 |
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By: clematisgrove@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
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Hi deecee.
Purgatry is one of many non--biblical doctorines held by the RCC it rates alongside reincarnation as one of the more ludicrous believes on the afterlife . Hev 9 v 27.
It very sad that so many people can be so blinded to the TRUTH of the Gospel.
Everything you say deecee rings very TRUE to me. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
3:07 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Thank you clematis. |
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By: tellthetruth888
7/11/2009
3:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
1 John 5: 1-5 |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
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No inbound, something isn't necessarily false just because it cannot be proven correct. .......THANK YOU DEECEE FOR FINALLY ADMITTING EVERY FAITH HAS A RIGHT TO FOLLOW ITS OWN PATH WITHOUT BEING TERMED FALSE....GO TELL YOUR BUDDY MIKE VERY LOUDLY...THE BUGGER HAS BEEN ARROGANT AND OFFENSIVE FOR DAYS FOR FAILING TO ACCORD PEOPLE THAT RIGHT.
Later Deecee backpedalled and retracted....proof that Deecee has more moves than a swiss watch and will do what is required to maintain his argument...pathetic. |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
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| After correction...No inbound, something isn't necessarily false just because it cannot be proven correct. It could still be true, even if we cannot prove it....coulda shoulda woulda...doesn't make it so......You cannot claim one true faith when you acknowledge the existence of others. |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
4:25 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| You employ the methodology of a snake to maintain your position Deecee even when you know your argument is flawed. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
5:59 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Inbound
It would seem that I have to spell out the points for you in simpler terms, because the posts were obviously too subtle for you.
My first post read:
"No inbound, something isn't necessarily false just because it cannot be proven correct. Something is false when it is proven or demonstrated to be false, and not before."
You responded to that by stating
<<THANK YOU DEECEE FOR FINALLY ADMITTING EVERY FAITH HAS A RIGHT TO FOLLOW ITS OWN PATH WITHOUT BEING TERMED FALSE....">>
To help you understand, Inbound, what I was saying was that something (e.g. belief in God) is not necessarily false simply because it cannot be proven correct. This has nothing to do with 'rights', it is about the nature of truth and falsehood.
Then, realising you had missed the point, I (rather sarcasticly I'm afraid) reworded as follows:
"No inbound, something isn't necessarily false just because it cannot be proven correct. It could still be true, even if we cannot prove it."
I really gave you the credit for being able to grasp this at least.
It seems I was over generous. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
6:07 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Now let's address the philosophical problem behind the statement <<EVERY FAITH HAS A RIGHT TO FOLLOW ITS OWN PATH WITHOUT BEING TERMED FALSE>>.
1. The proponent of this idea wishes to remove their belif system from the gaze of critique. This is simply intellectually dishonest.
2. Any belief system worth following should be able to survive the most robust of critique, moral, philosophical, historical and logical. Christianity has for 2,000 years.
3. If we are not permitted to openly contemplate a particular faith as being false, how do we then attempt to objectively evaluate it? Must we use a presupposition of acceptance?
4. And does this same acceptance or tolerance apply to other belief systems? For example should we not criticise as false political ideologies? Eg Communism?
See where this is going? |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
6:11 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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<<What you have been arguing all along is you are the one true faith...I have argued against that based on what you state is true. You cannot claim it is true just as I cannot claim my faith is true.>>
I argue that Christianity is the one true faith. That is my position, and I have supported it as to the existence of the Christian God, the reliability of the Bible, and the deity of Christ. And I have argued it based on Christianity being founded on verifiable historical truths not just metaphysical concepts.
An objective view of truth does not preclude me claiming exclusive truth; what it does do is to simply say I could be wrong. Under your subjective notion of truth, none of us are wrong, despite our mutually exclusive beliefs. And that is a nonsense.
<<My argument has been that ALL faith runs on BLIND TRUST. At the end of the day it is all that those of faith have until proven different.>>
Is this what you've been arguing all along Inbound? I don't think so.
What you've been arguing is that truth is a relative concept, determined by our particular knowledge at a particular time. As the illogic of this has slowly dawned on you, it is understandable you would seek to deflect the discussion.
And blind faith may be the basis for your beliefs, but it cetainly isn't the basis for Christian belief. If you believe it is, you deny the evidence of history, archaeology, science and the study of ancient literature, which all strongly support the authenticity of Christan belief. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
6:13 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Inbound
You accuse me of all sorts of things, simply because you are unable to follow simple logic. But deep down I suspect it was the previous post that wound you up. I look forward to your response, particularly to this point:
"An objective view of truth does not preclude me claiming exclusive truth; what it does do is to simply say I could be wrong. Under your subjective notion of truth, none of us are wrong, despite our mutually exclusive beliefs. And that is a nonsense." |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
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| You claimed absolute truth which you cannot. That is proven by your own statements previously Deecee...now you come back with rationalisations and justifications of your reasoning in an attempt to deny the obvious...you cannot prove or provide categorical evidence of your God just like any other faith. You have accepted other Gods exist or can exist, therefore you cannot claim absolute truth or that your God is the only true God when their is absolutely no evidence to support that...you cannot prove it beyond reason of doubt. You can however choose to believe what you wish...it does not make it fact or true. Carry on living in denial if you must...you have the logical block and you are in total denial. |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
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"An objective view of truth does not preclude me claiming exclusive truth; what it does do is to simply say I could be wrong. Under your subjective notion of truth, none of us are wrong, despite our mutually exclusive beliefs. And that is a nonsense."
Thankyou...you are choosing what you want to believe it is your truth...no facts to support it being actual truth and yet you claim its true...is that not nonsense...you are wanting to choose what I proposed. |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
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| You cannot have an objective view of faith without arriving at the conclusion you have no factual evidence of God to categorically prove its existence so you cannot claim exclusive truth...that is a delusion. |
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By: inbound39
7/11/2009
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| To arrive at your objective view you are adding your personal opinion...that is not objectivity. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
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Read this carefully Inbound. Particularly the last point.
<<You claimed absolute truth which you cannot.>>
If you refer to my comments on Christianity, here is what I actually claimed:
"'Proof' is a concept relating to the natural world. God is supernatural. The existence of God, as with any other supernatural claim, cannot either be proven or disproven. As with any other 'unproven' claim, natural or supernatural, if we search for truth we should do so armed with what empirical evidence and logical argument we have. The most plausible belief is that which requires the smallest leap of faith from fact to belief. That is Christianity."
<<therefore you cannot claim absolute truth or that your God is the only true God when their is absolutely no evidence to support that...you cannot prove it beyond reason of doubt.>>
Let's consider what you are actually claiming here.
Firstly your statement that there is "absolutely no evidence to support" the existence of God is simply nonsense. There is both physical and philosophical evidence for God's existence that has convinced people as diverse as former atheists CS Lewis and Anthony Flew.
Secondly you round the two statements <<their is absolutely no evidence to support that>> and <<you cannot prove it beyond reason of doubt.>> together as if they mean the same thing. Of course they do not. They are two completely different standards of 'proof', and surely you can see that?
But the final irony is in your statement <<You can however choose to believe what you wish...it does not make it fact or true>>. And here, at last, you accept what I and others have been saying to you all along.
It took you a while, Inbound, but you got there in the end. |
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By: deecee4@xtra.co.nz
7/11/2009
7:29 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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I will leave you to mull over that and bit you all goodnight.
I will try to check in over the next week while I'm in HK, but no promises. |
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By: realityzgreat1
7/11/2009
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and the judge said to the cyclist .. do you swear to tell the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH
no mention of ABSOLUTE TRUTH .. why would that be ? |
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By: tellthetruth888
7/11/2009
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Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
WHY IS MY LANGUAGE NOT CLEAR TO YOU?
BECAUSE YOU ARE UNABLE TO HEAR WHAT I SAY.
You belong to your father, THE DEVIL, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
YET BECAUSE I TELL THE TRUTH, YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME!
Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
John 8: 42-47 |
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By: realityzgreat1
7/11/2009
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we are born .. we live .. we die .. end of story
realtyzgreat1 5:16-3 |
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By: tellthetruth888
7/11/2009
8:59 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Good for you, really. Enjoy your life, eat and be merry. |
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