By: tipperlee
6/10/2008
3:39 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Powely, if you put your brain into gear before your fingers to the keyboard, you would know that the cost of National Service is far leass than the cost of court cases and prison. I know which one I would choose. |
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By: tammydoodle@rocketmail.com
6/10/2008
3:50 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| yeah got my votes |
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By: deerhunter70@ymail.com
6/10/2008
4:03 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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tipperlee. I thoroughly agree with you. I was a CMT trainee in the 50's.
We had a cross section of the community as every 18 year old had to do it. A lot went in with serious attitudes but toed the line within a week.Many joined the regular forces afterwards and the rest of us learned to live with society.
My old Guardian was a Regular Force senior officer and railed about the fact that they were forced to do the family job of raising teenagers to conform. I argued that our taxes were better spent that way than locking them up.
I can confirm that there were very few misfits after the military training. |
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By: gregmgnz
6/10/2008
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| its all about socialisation and opportunity, the policy could also backfire, just how many violent offenders also have a psyc condition? Interesting not that labours built more prisons than the national party |
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By: tipperlee
6/10/2008
4:42 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Just shows they needed more prisons under labour. |
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By: b2myne@ymail.com
6/10/2008
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| i dont agree with life with no parole but lets get more forensic facilities |
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By: tipperlee
6/10/2008
6:21 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| So you would just slap multiple murderers over the wrist with a wet bus ticket and tell them they are naughty and don't do it again. Let them out to enjoy life when they took the life of someone else. |
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By: rockgeko1
6/10/2008
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The Limited Service Volunteers course is six weeks long and they do have a very good sucess rate. None of this you poor we product of society, it's righto boy lets all go for a wee run...
The majority of the people that attend do leave with more respect for themselves and others. Brilliant course, proven it works and should be more like it. |
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By: jeetanserena
6/10/2008
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| Good on National! But you don't need to spend to $3 million on a Prison. You leave out the Flat screen tv's,Underfloor heating, K.F.C.and all the other luxuries which Labour has allowed. Also stick twin bunks in all the rooms, like the ones from "Bad Girls". It will be much cheaper than $3 million and they won't want to go back! |
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By: jeetanserena
6/10/2008
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| oops - I think I meant $300 million. |
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By: proudcannabal
6/10/2008
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| shoot the murderers, rape the rapists, strip the theives of all there belongings,castrate the pedophiles, this will halve the jail bill and cut down reoffending |
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By: wasullivan@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
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Since no-one has mentioned it yet, I will.
Helengrad came out immediately the news broke, saying Labour had already put in place Preventative Detention that the judges can use, and shes right. The only problem is the judges dont use it that often. I very much welcome Nationals announcement, but what will they put in place to ensure the judges toe the same line?. Also I dont think it goes far enough to address the problems we will still have with dealing with all those serial scumbags who are sentenced - Prior - to these new measures taking effect. I would hope to hear more details from National over the next few weeks about what they intend to do, to reign in the parole boards, to prevent them letting the existing serial inmates out too early. I also want to hear Nationals policy on the gang issue, and hope its along the same lines as what Goff, and the fella Marx are on about.
National are definitely heading in the right direction. 2 ticks from me. |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
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Liebour had already refused to enact gang legislation on several instances over the past 9 years. We get a complete flip flop from King, Clark & Goff, guess when? Election year. What Clark & Goff don't say is that preventative detention still allows an inmate to apply for Parole after serving only five years. That inmate can continue to reapply every year, unless the Parole board decides otherwise ie) defer an application for up to, 2 or 3 years. In any event Liebour has never given consideration to the impact of victims and their families who have to mentally, physically and emotionally fortify themselves to give victim impact reports etc. to the board to ensure the consequences of the offenders crime is brought out, to ensure the inmate remains in custody. If there's no Parole, all of this grief goes away for victims and their families.
Nationals no parole rules will apply to REPEAT (indicates a lack of redemption & rehabilitation) VIOLENT (gross violence, rape, murder, home invasion etc) OFFENDERS (think of the impact on victims, their families & lives, often for the rest of their lives).
Then it makes complete sense doesnt it? Hasn't the opportunity for the offenders to redeem themselves already been given after the first one or two violent offences? Not been taken up by the offender since they have simply re-offended?
Given that the offences are violence against a person(s);
First Crimes Act offence, Early Parole only in return for successful completion of rehabilitative courses, addiction & education programmes during sentence.
Second Crimes Act offence, No parole, serve full sentence.
Third Crimes Act Offence, Serve full sentence as a minimum, then only eligible for release at her Majesty's pleasure. Often when the offender has become very old, fragile or terminally ill & is transferred to a supervised, semi secure medical facility or half way house with daily reporting requirements. 30, 40 or 50 years inside!!!
And why not? |
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By: andrew.whiteman@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
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| The books dont look good. Be interesting to see how National can keep their promises without getting us further down the toilet. |
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By: shmeads@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
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| I agree jeelanserena......they can also build their own prisons,grow their own food.....no luxuries. Also put 3 -4 in a cell.....how come these scumbags have their own cell ?....in other countries ,you share. Some places ,up to 40 in a room....Sleeping on the floor ,using buckets for toilets.....NZ is way to soft.I've stayed in backpachers with less than these scumbags get inside. |
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By: xtr365705@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
6:12 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| The books will look better when National sacks thousands of those Helen Clark 'advisors' that have led us into the mess we are now in. Phil Goff may froth at the mouth about long term prison sentences but the stats say that over the past 10 years our jailings have increased by 45%. NZ now has three times more in prison than the likes of Euro countries and we're way ahead of Oz. Labour has been the jail happy lot but instead of spending the much needed funds on rehab they've just had the parole board let them go; and let others out on reduced sentences because they were deemed "not to be a threat to society". Remember Burton and Bell ?????? God one Goff. |
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By: xtr365705@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
6:13 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| should be 'Good one Goff'. |
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By: powley9
7/10/2008
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| what a load of rubbish tippy sending them to the army wont help one bit only make them fitter and cunninger just delay it |
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By: lynne.hawkins@xtra.co.nz
7/10/2008
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| You are so far out of touch with reality. You are obviously too young to have seen the good it has done in the past and to see how things started going down the toilet as soon as CMT was disbanded. Ask anyone who has done LSV and see how they feel. The proof is there. End of story. |
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By: tipperlee
7/10/2008
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| Thank you lynne. You are obviously on the same planet as me. CMT and LSV does work Powley. Go back and check the posting of those that have benn there, done that. Tell them they are wrong. |
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By: rotahoe1000000
7/10/2008
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Your saying people that commit crimes like murder etc should not get parole,so that should include all drivers on New Zealand roads that kill innocent people hundreds each year, they should go to prison for life.
Afterall a driver that kills someone is just the same as a person murdering someone. |
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By: glasspida
7/10/2008
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Actually rotahoe - under the current law they are not the same. The current law (right or wrong which is another whole debate) states that if you kill someone while drink driving it is deemed as manslaughter - not murder.
Yes, yes, I know what your going to say...but murder falls into being pre-meditated. And I believe there to be a big grey area surrounding the influence of alcohol and pre-meditation....
Don't get me wrong I personally believe that if you willingly drink then drive - it constitutes pre-meditation but that's not the debate.
What is on the cards is clearly defined by National and that content I support fully. |
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By: inbound39
7/10/2008
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| Preventive Detention criteria only allows for repeat violent offenders to be incapacitated ,as they call it. The offender has to be a violent or sexual offender and it has to be proven they are an ongoing threat to society. There is no criteria for other career criminals who repeat offend and who are just as much a threat to the stability and safety of the community such as repeat drunk drivers. So Helen has no understanding of her own laws and again is lying. What National offers is a one size fits all and that is what we need. |
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By: kiri_jns
7/10/2008
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| yes im a labour supporter to, but my thinking is changing. I'm kinda baffled with all this tit for tat going on with John, and all these promises, cos they both are good at that, where all the $$$ is coming from? If we are going down the gurgler, wont this whole life help to further gurle? If they keep the William Bells in for the rest of their lives...its going to cost a fortune. Im working to keep this guy of the streets...dosent kinda sit to well. But hey if thats the call...then we will see. |
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By: ilikemuffin
8/10/2008
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The money they plan to spend on this parole policy should be used to establish an effective rehabilitation system which would significantly lower the reoffending rate, meaning there would be no need for such a policy.
What makes you people think that sending a person to prison after their first offence is going to automatically make them a better person? And how can you expect them to function successfully in society after having spent all that time in prison with little or no rehabilitation? Also it has been proven that prisons work unsuccessfully as a deterrent so this policy would not stop re-offending, or even first time offending. As for violent criminals such as mass murderers or serial killers, chances are these people have some form of mental illness which means that prison is no help there either. They should be getting the psychiatric help that they need.
I agree that national service or 'boot camp' style programmes may be successful, but this is only short-term. I find it hard to believe that, in two or three years time when they're about to rip-off a house or worse commit a murder, they will suddenly stop and think back to their six weeks of army training.
New Zealand needs to stop looking for short-term fixes and start looking for long-term solutions. To find the solution to a problem you have to look at the source. These problems begin early in a person's life and can often be traced back to their home life. I believe schools should have the resources to be able to pick up on anti-social behaviour in children and do something about it, before that behaviour turns them to crime.
And even though the current government may not be successfully addressing these issues, a change of government isn't going to change the situation. Everyone needs to open their eyes and stop believing everything that you're spoon-fed by the media, You have a mind of your own so start using it. |
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