By: up2ow
8/07/2008
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Just curious, this is not an invitation to bash Maori either!!! I was wondering
a) whether your knowledge of the Treaty is at beginner, intermediate or advanced level
b) where you gained this knowledge
c) whether you are Maori or ummm (how do i put this) non-Maori
Me? I'm Maori, learnt about the Treaty at University level so I guess my knowledge is fairly advanced.
The reason I'm posting this thread is because I've noticed on these and other messageboards, there seems to be the same ole debate going on about treaty caims. I don't remember learning much about the Treaty at school and I'm wondering how many others out there did. Our intermediate school used to have houses named after past Governors, and I was so proud to be in the "Grey" house until my uni years when I found out who he actually was.
I personally think that it should be compulsory to learn about the Treaty of Waitangi, the history surrounding it, and other NZ history at school. I don't mean a couple of lessons either. I think this topic should be as important as English and Maths. What do you think? |
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By: miriareu48
8/07/2008
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| I think it is compulsory to learn about it at Te Wanaga of Aotearoa. No matter what course you do. *I Think* (ramblings from Auntys) |
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By: up2ow
8/07/2008
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| Even if that's true, not everyone goes to the Wananga, but everyone has to go to school |
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By: up2ow
8/07/2008
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| BTW, my apologies for posting this in the wrong section |
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By: vince_the_c
9/07/2008
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I wasn't born here and did school overseas. I have no idea in what the Treaty entails. It doesn't seem to make much difference to my daily life, though lots of govt. jobs specify that you have to have a good understanding of the Treaty. OTOH, I've never been asked questions about the Treaty at a job interview.
It was explained to me, some time ago, that the Maori got the right to vote and have MPs in exchange for being recruited into the army (if necessary) and not rocking the boat too much. Uhm... maybe I should get a deeper understanding of it!
And yes, I think history should be a compulsory subject at school. Otherwise, how can a country improve and build upon the past? Now *which version* of history is taught is another question! :D
When I was in high school, for example, we did "modern history" without a single mention of the Bolshevik revolution. The defining event of the 20th century and somehow, it was ignored. Some *** anese educators are apparently trying to gloss over their country's WWII atrocities. So yeah, whose version of history?
BTW, what's up with this site? It won't let me post the word J a p a n e s e? |
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By: thekauriarch
9/07/2008
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| *** anese, *** anese, *** anese |
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By: greenstonegroup
9/07/2008
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Im half Maori and went to a Maori Boys boarding school.
The treaty of Waitangi- to me is irrelavent to the lives of good people. All kiwi's Maori and all others, have a duty to look after one and other because that's all we have in our corner of the world.
Get real-people who try to make a life out of looking and staying in the past are holding themselves back from inner evolution.
We are all one. |
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By: thekauriarch
9/07/2008
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| interesting, I think the people of *** an shud be aware that j a panese is a swear word? come on yahoo pearl harbour was a long time ago!!!!! and a see that the word j-a-p-an is upsetting to the yanks as well |
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By: powley9
9/07/2008
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| well said greenstone it old history and just remember not all signed it more important than maths what uni did you go to micky mouse high. |
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By: asbanc07
9/07/2008
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| I am European and retired. I used to work for a Govt dept. Under Labours dictatorial role to retain my job level I had to: learn Te Reo, sleep over on a Marae, Attend 3 days lectures on the Treaty, Learn a Wiata and perform on a regular basis. It was forced on me. I had no choice. For an old fart like me of Scottish heritage it really got up my nose. So... Stuff the Treaty and all its ramifications and tax payer bleeding claims!! |
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By: licorice2@xtra.co.nz
9/07/2008
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| Advanced like yourself I did it at University, I to think it should be taught with competency at school, there wouldnt be so much negativity about it if people actually understood what it means. |
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By: greenstonegroup
9/07/2008
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Hey asbanc07,
May be best for all us kiwi's if you pop off back to Scotland,as it seems the only culture you interested in is your own. If you come here you put up with what's happening in any cultural field. |
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By: up2ow
9/07/2008
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Vince the C - I think you bring up a good point about "which" history should be taught. When I took NZ history papers at Waikato University, we had a European and a Maori lecturer take us all the way through. It was like hearing both sides of the story which I thought was excellent! There should be some balance as to what is taught.
Greenstone - I don't think that by learning about our history, it keeps me in the past. It simply gives me an insight as to the foundations of our country. I don't dwell on the past, I just get really p'd off when people give misinformed opinions about it when they really don't know jack! I too would like to see NZ move forward as one people, and by learning about our past, I think this will bring us all one step closer to that goal.
Powley - I think the topic SHOULD be as important as maths, and I've never heard of Mickey Mouse High.
asbanc07 - There are plenty of jobs that require you to do extra training/learning. What was it really that got up your nose?
licorice - "there wouldnt be so much negativity about it if people actually understood what it means." I think you hit the nail on the head! |
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By: greenstonegroup
9/07/2008
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| Thankyou up2ow |
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By: asbanc07
9/07/2008
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| Greenstonegroup. I'm third generation New Zealander... perhaps more than you ?? and of course more than most maori of mixed heritage. I guess you are one of those stirrers who are 95% european and 5% maori but likes to call himself maori to get all the benefits and handouts. |
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By: up2ow
9/07/2008
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| What benefits and handouts are you referring to? I'm Maori, and I've never received anything just for being Maori...A little girl waits |
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By: philliphunter64
9/07/2008
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| i no the treaty has cost the honest hard working honest tax payer a lot of money including maori for no reason. |
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By: asbanc07
9/07/2008
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| up2ow. We Europeans and second class citizens in NZ. A few years ago one of my sons was assiting in the army Cyclone Bola cleanup. First thing he was told when he arrived was that Europeans walk in the gutter !! THAT'S the sort of thing that's up my nose. |
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By: up2ow
9/07/2008
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| Not sure how that is relevant to my previous post or the thread topic, but that's pretty f'd up! |
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By: powley9
9/07/2008
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| wasnt it just a pommy trick to colinise nz not intension of honouring it especially 160 years later? |
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By: jermgnz
9/07/2008
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powley9 - i dont think so - I believe there were good intentions on both sides signing the Treaty - it was subsequent settler governments eager for land that screwed things up.
My two cents' worth on this is there are two issues which are often confused.
First, the Treaty is the founding document of this country. If you read it in its entirety it talks about the need to establish institutions of civil law and govt in order to maintain an orderly approach to colonisation. In return for transferring to Britain the ability to do this, Maori were guaranteed prtection of their lands forest fisheries etc and extended the same rights and priviliges as a British subject.
Second is the debate about Treaty settlements - which shouldnt be called Treaty settlements at all - just settlements because (for the historical ones at least) they acknowledge past bad deeds by varioous governments and seek to remedy them - which they should be doing Treaty or not.
so much for two cents' worth! |
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By: jermgnz
9/07/2008
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| asbanc07 - so your son felt put out by being told that for a very short time - you may then start to get a feel for the level of hurt and indignity felt by generations of Maori who had land removed by various acts of government, or were punished for speaking their own language in school or whose education options were limited to farm worker or homeworker by the education system. I cetainly cant imagine having to live with any of that but can empathise with anyone who suffers as a result of that sort of treatment |
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By: samhannagan
9/07/2008
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The most important thing i learned about the Treaty of Waitangi is something only a few people realise, and that is that it become legally void on January 10, 1920. Also going hand in hand, New Zealands Constitution become void as well.
I'm not making this up or pulling it out of my ass so to speak but during some research i have carried out over the last year i have come to realise that the country and it's history is a shammbles. Bare with me, as i am going to dig into the murky depths of constitutional law.
New Zealand under International Law become Independent on January 10th 1920 when it become a signatory and founding member to the league of nations, which was only open to Soveriegn nations not Colonies to which New Zealand was at the time. England reaffirmed out independence over the following decade through a number of addresses. Now unfortunatly article XX of the covenant of the League of Nations estinguished all colonials laws passed pre-soveriegnty, this include New Zealands Constitution.
However the New Zealand government continued to act as though it had the authority too. However it never could without seeking mandate from the people, which to date it had never done or even attempted to do so. It needs mandate from the people of New Zealand because it is legally impossible for Soveriegnty to pass from the Monarch of England to the government of New Zealand as only british subjects can be given soveriegnty, and the government is not a british subject...the people are.
In 1931 the UK parliament passed the statue of Westminster to be adopted by each commonwealth nations upon ratification. New Zealands government falsely believed it could still act in a colonial capacity until in ratified the statue in 1947. The New Zealands government however had declared war on germany in 1939 before the UK. But only a soveriegn nation can declare war so the NZ government appears to be acting in to capacities. TBC |
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By: samhannagan
9/07/2008
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After New Zealand ratified the Statue it had the UK parliament pass a new constitution act for New Zealand. However as Australia had already found out no law passed by one country is valid in another, so again New Zealand had no Constitution.
In 1986 the New Zealand government appears for the third time to become independent when it passed the Constitution Act. Had the government actually held the authority to pass the act it would have wiped itself out of existant the following day, remembering that soveriegnty can only be given to the people not Parliament...unless mandate from the people is given which again has never happened.
This leaves New Zealand (Australia and Canada to some digree) in an interesting posistion. We all of a sudden have the government saying the hold absoulute soveriegnty over New Zealanders, and you must ask how did this happen. There is only three ways the government can be ruleing. First - With mandate from the people, which as i have told you before they have never recieved or attempted to get. Second - With out any constitutional Authority to do so. Third - By illegally ursupering soveriegnty from the people of New Zealand.
With the 2nd and 3rd options the only two possible ways this government can be operating it leaves large holes to be exploited. The government has had no authortiy what so ever to settle any treaty claims. It has no authority to pass any laws nor collect any tax, which as we all know they have been doing. And just as importantly the Courts have no authority to hear such a case. |
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By: harry.jess@xtra.co.nz
9/07/2008
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I am 1/4 Maori and learnt about the Treaty at University level while studying Maori Society and Culture. Opened my eyes a lot, I found myself getting really angry at some points.
I think all people should know basic Maori Society and Culture to better understand where Maori are coming from, rather than just ranting at stories they see on the news. |
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