By: powley9
12/07/2008
11:52 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| what quote from the phantom compared to phantom lightning slow? |
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By: xtr365705@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| Are we talking about the Maori version or the English version here. If they still exist are they exactly the same or being interpreted in ones own language to suit themselves. |
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By: licorice2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| The Maori version of the Treaty is the one recognised in international law by rule of contra proferentem which means it is a rule of contractual interpretation which provides that an ambiguous term will be construed against the party (British Crown)that imposed its inclusion in the contract – or, more accurately, against (the interests of) the party who imposed it. Therefore, the interpretation will favor the party (Maori or in other instances the indigenous people) that did not insist on its inclusion. The rule only applies if, and to the extent that, the clause was included at the unilateral insistence of one party without having been subject to negotiation by the counter-party. Additionally, the rule only applies if the court determines the term to be ambiguous, (kawanatanga and tino rangatiratanga, governorship and sovereignty and the mis use of these terms in the Treaty, they are not interchangeable) which often forms the substance of a contractual dispute. |
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By: nicolte
12/07/2008
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| In all fairness to the Brits, they had no experience in wording a "treaty", they'd never had one before either :-) |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
2:50 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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powley9
of course those are problems I talked about... but how can we consider answers when people refuse to first of all understand the problems? |
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By: powley9
12/07/2008
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| too much goggledy g##k for me there must be a way |
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By: licorice2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| read this site, New Zealand history, it may help you to clarify. http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/category/tid/133 |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| of course there is a way... but the problems aren't small ones... we have entrench problems built up over nearly two centuries... There is no easy fix, but that doesn't mean there isn't a set of solutions... but as I said the first challenge is to truly understand the problem... |
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By: up2ow
13/07/2008
2:48 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Wow, I go away for a couple of days and the posts jump from 30 to 257!
After an hour of reading I've seen a common trend throughout this thread. The people that have little knowledge about the Treaty have very negative and MIS-INFORMED opinions about it. This was my point from the very beginning.
The disappointing thing is in my thread header, I asked for no Maori bashing. In fact any racial bashing of any kind is petty, shows your arrogance and is soooo not cool! If you're not going to stick to the topic then BUGGER OFF!
To those of you who keep harping on about "not everyone signed the Treaty, so why should they get hand outs?" do you also think they shouldn't have to abide by the same laws as everyone else?
I've also noticed a few people throughout this thread that have great idea's about how Maori should spend their settlement money. Awesome guy's, when you sell you car or house, we should all come back here and tell you what YOU should spend your money on too :)
Gazza - Keep your ill-informed and narrow-minded opinions to yourself! You have offered nothing but hate to this thread and have shown the rest of the readers that you really are as pathetic as your posts!
Thanks to everyone else who have offered your opinions on this topic. Please stick to the topic, if you're only here to stir the racist pot, then please be on your way and start your own thread.
Kind regards
Up2ow ;) |
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By: powley9
13/07/2008
2:56 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| you dont own the place mate so why dont you head on off |
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By: kiwi_gurl53
13/07/2008
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Hello up2ow.....Yeah good on you for that it does
get annoying sometimes....However you just gotta
go with the flow and hope they READ the posts
PROPERLY and be FAIR...sometimes others oplnion
do make sense.......then again as you said some do
a good job on MAORI bashing............They would
do good going to my thread, WHAT IS NEW ZEALAND COMING TO ? |
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By: up2ow
13/07/2008
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| Wow, great come back! So what school did you go to? Amisfield? |
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By: up2ow
13/07/2008
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| That comment was for Powley BTW. Thanks Kiwi girl, it's hard to start a topic like this without all the extra b/s. I'll have a look at your thread later, the Magic game is about to start...go Waikato! |
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By: wottheheck@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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| We're becoming such a multicultural, multi-ethnic society that I wonder if we really do need to work up one single written constitution that applies to everyone and that properly defines and incorporates the principles of the treaty in one language. It would take years, and I think the language should be English. (I know, why not Maori, but not everyone speaks it or understands it whereas most Maori speakers are Maori/English bi-lingual and deserve huge respect for that alone.) The differences in the English vs Maori version leaves too much room for confusion and argument/grief on both sides. The Brit settler Crown/Maori compact doesn't seem all that inclusive of other groups years on, and the odd bits and pieces of NZ law that sort of form our equivalent of a constituion - including the Bill of Rights don't seem to be well understood. |
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By: powley9
13/07/2008
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| its always the same school holidays in come the jumped up know alls |
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By: sianhowells11@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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| Hi, I moved here from the UK last year, and don't really know that much about the Treaty. I'd like to, but wouldn't know where to start. I understand that it's an important part of NZ history and I think that if I choose to live in another country, I should embrace its culture, history etc with open arms. New Zealand is such a fantastic place, I never want to leave. |
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By: nana_mac@rocketmail.com
13/07/2008
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| To contactmarkb ... 'right to defend themselves' ... do you mean everyone has a gun and knows how to use it? You obviously do because you just shot yourself in the foot as well as shoot your mouth off. GO HOME. |
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By: wottheheck@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
3:41 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Aw hey, I wouldn't say that Powlers, you've been on here for weeks aint'cha? |
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By: powley9
13/07/2008
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| not you what the heck not you |
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By: joe50@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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| want a history lesson, just be thankful cook founded nz first, the french were just behind him, i believe if the french came first no one wound know what a maori was let alone a treaty, thank your lucky stars. |
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By: solutionz@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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How's that bear fat lastin out old timer?
Good to know we have another 'TokBloke' on the threads... |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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joe50
you need to read a book or two buddy... the French were here at about the same time as Cook was (remembering Cook visited here three times)... one of the main presures from the British settlers in NZ was the "so called" French threat... but that has shown to be bogus... There was a nutter running around the Hokianga Harbour named "de Thery" there was also the French settlement planned for Akaroa... But the thing the Brits were most worried about was Pompalier the French Catholic Priest... The Anglicans were not happy about this at all, and so the "French threat" was very much a beat up... The French were never that keen on us... actually even the Brits weren't that keen on NZ and they had to be convinced to step in... If the Brits hadn't stepped in with the Treaty, then the next most likely nation to increase official involvement in NZ was the USA... Hone Heke actually petitioned the USA Government to take control of NZ after the treaty was signed... Heke was so keen he used to fly a US flag on his waka (canoe)... If Heke was around today he'd be wearing Starter jackets and listening to Rap, he was our first Maori street kid...
As for thanking lucky stars Joe... where would you be if the French had assumed control of NZ??? |
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By: wottheheck@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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| Oh - ok Powlers. |
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By: wottheheck@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
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| Hmm, probably listening to Carla Bruni's latest albumn and not rap? |
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By: wottheheck@xtra.co.nz
13/07/2008
6:25 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| That said, would rather hear Kiwi hip hop than anyone else's. Some of it's quite cool - not all negative gangsta stuff. |
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