By: harry.jess@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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incorrect
at the time of signing there were more literate maori in new zealand than pakeha
in the declaration of independence 1835 they did not use 'kawanatanga' to describe sovereignty
not to mention maori didn't even have any idea of government (what kawanatanga refers to) so how could they sign it over? |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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the versions were deliberately writen differently by the Pakeha involved... inorder to secure the signatures of the chiefs... Yes that is INTENTIONALLY wrote the two differently...
The thing was the Pakeha wrote an English version to mean what they wanted and then wrote a Maori version to gain signatures, and then used the English version as their mandate, even though the Maori version was the one with 90% of the signatures...
Now if we want to talk fraudent acts... hmmm... don't think that finger should be pointed at maori... |
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By: tgod_123
19/07/2008
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| For those posting on this forum regarding the social genocide practised here in good ol Aotearoa - sorry New Zealand, and the realisation that you are actually participating in that social genocide, you really need to educate yourselves, which brings us back to the original thread, yes the Treaty should be part of school curriculum and I'm not talking about the watered down Pakeha slanted versions of this countries history but the facts - dirt and all then let people see the truth and be ashamed |
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By: nicolte
19/07/2008
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| No living New Zealander has any reason to be "ashamed" in regards to the treaty, "informed" might be a better word!!! |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| Yeah ashamed is the wrong word... informed and aware is all that is needed... |
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By: tgod_123
19/07/2008
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| Ahhh yes, but when people become informed they MAY realise that we have alot to feel ashamed about. Its individual |
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By: mustang72@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| they were paid for there land at its value on the day How many times do we as tax payers have to keep paying My grandparents sold there farm many years ago and its worth millions now i wish i could claim that farm back like the moaris as they only make claims on prime realestate not the rubbish wake up nz smell the roses stop treaty claims |
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By: tgod_123
19/07/2008
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| Yes in some cases land was sold, but the majority of land in this country was "taken" by deception and legislation. My family have no issues around land theft. My ancestors married with Pakeha prior to the signing of the Treaty. My canny Scottish ancestors placed the majority into trusteeship (because they didnt trust the English) our land is still owned by our family. However this was not the case for many - so maybe its best not to generalise. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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mustang72
it is this level of ignorance that causes most of the problems in this debate...
Under the New Zealand Settlement Act 1863 alone, over three million acres of Maori land was confiscated... That's CONFISCATED, which is a prettier word then stolen, and not brought... |
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By: tgod_123
19/07/2008
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Some interesting legislation and situations of the time, Condensed
1935 - Declaration of Independence by the Confederation of Northern Chiefs, James Busby assisted due to the threat to English influence from the USA and French. Recognised by Westminster.
1840 - Treaty of Waitangi
1840-42 - Sydney Land Act, an effort to uphold sole right of the crown to buy and sell land as written in TOW. Broken by Governor Fitzroy who encouraged the purchase of land by individuals including his family and friends.
1846 - Governor Grey had law changed to allow purchases of land sales and change government to act as "agent"
1853 - Constitution Act. Declaration that Treaty rights disappeared legislatively as this was signed between Britain and Maori chiefs and was therefore non binding on settler government. Adult European males who owned any amount of property were allowed the vote. Due to communual ownership maori adult males (without sole ownership of land) were denied voting rights.
1856 - 1859 - 7 million acres "acquired" through sqatting on maori land for sheep farming needs. Ownership of illegally leased plot sales forced through the settler government.
Governor Gore-Browne reported to the Colonial Office about the feeling of settlers
Quote "The European covet these lands and are determined to enter in and posses them - recte si possint, si non, quocunde modo - rightly if possible, if not then by any menas at all".
With the backing of the British Imperial Army Maori were provoked into rebellion and lands confiscated from the "rebels". |
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By: harry.jess@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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yes, YES
SCHOOL THESE PEOPLE |
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By: harry.jess@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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1860 - New Zealand Wars
1862 - The Natiave Land Act, used to alienate Maori land
1863 - legislation created that allowed millions of acres of land to become property of the Crown
1864 - Public Works Act - also helped to alienate Maori land
1867 - Native Schools Act paased - enabled Maori communities to ask for schools to be build within their villages, however to get one they had to donate the land, provide half of the building costs, quarter of the teachers salaries and contribute to management of the school
1907 - school cirriculums reformed to include an agricultural focus - a two-tiered education system developed, one for Maori and one for Pakeha. Maori were taught how to work in agriculture so as to set them up for a life of being farmers and not to mingle with the Pakeha folk (YES THAT'S RIGHT)
1840-1900 approx. 53 million acres of land alienated to settler communities
MAORI LAND OWNERSHIP:
1840 - 66,400,000 acres
1852 - 34,000,000
1891 - 11,079,486
1911 - 7,137,205
1986 - 2,262,091
1996 - 3,743,689
obviously there is a lot more than this |
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By: mdrennie@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| I think the teaty is old news,stop living in the past and look to the future. We maori are to quick to claim we are disadvantaged,If we stopped fulling the jails and having a "you owe us " mentality we might be as good as the imports.I think the people that settled in this wonderful country and got to work to build it via a good hard days work don't give a stuff bout something that happened so long ago. Move on fellow natives |
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By: harry.jess@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| yeah and just forget that everything your people were subjected to. |
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By: mdrennie@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| All the people that were subjected to this are now dust |
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By: bosons@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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come on are you forgeting there alot of half casts running around.
wot our people were sujected to ..our people did it.
like ive always said ive apologised to myself along time ago .lol. |
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By: mdrennie@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| WE were lucky the English didn't eat us, yum yum |
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By: christinadurdy
19/07/2008
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| FACT THERE ARE LESS THAN 1% OF FULL MAORI BLOOD MAORI |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| FACT... THAT DOESN'T MATTER... |
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By: tgod_123
19/07/2008
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This is where you are very wrong, when you remove a peoples abilitiy to provide for themselves and replace that system with dependence you reap what you sow.
Its most certainly not about being a victim as you put it, but knowing what makes you what you are, if you choose to ignore your past heritage thats up to you, but dont try to force that thinking on me. |
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By: christinadurdy
19/07/2008
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AFTER THIS WHOLE PAY OUT THAT NUN OF MAORIS WILL PROBLY NEVER ACTUALLY SEE, DONT YOU THINK EVERY1 SHUD JUST GET OVER IT AND GET ON WITH LIFE???
ITS BEEN FAR TOO LONG AND ITS GOOD MAORI ARE RECOGNISED PROPRKY AND APPRECIATED, YET STILL ALWYS THERE ALWAYS BE SOME SORY OF RESENTMENT TO THE OPPPOSITE RACE AND NOT ONLY TO NZ BUT TO EVERYWHERE.
JUST THINK WUDNY IT B GFREAT TO LIVE MORE HAPPIER?? |
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By: bosons@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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| man all this shouting ive gone deaf |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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mdrennie
"are now dust"???? another missing the point... the impact of treaty breaches are being felt TODAY... we are not talking 1840... |
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By: tgod_123
19/07/2008
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christinadurdy -blood quantium argument? I feel that my identity is for me to define not anyone else, I dont try to tell you who you are and how you describe yourself so what makes you think you can do that for me?.
I am Maori of Scottish descent and equally proud of my heritage. BUT I define myself as Maori because I want to. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
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christinadurdy
for the record I AM HAPPY |
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