By: nicolte
19/07/2008
11:57 pm Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| exactly, so you agree, it has nothing to do with a race!!! |
|
By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
19/07/2008
11:59 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jgini@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Abu wrongs happened in the past to ALL of us So my people don't complain and get on with it - but we have to be blamed for and carry your complaints. Isnt'this a case of TWO wrongs - one in the past and one NOW. If all the grievances in NZ were aired can you imagine where we would be I repeat the Maori people are lucky to be alone in NZ in getting some compensation for what they lost -not saying all but that would be a world first anyway.
I'm sure there were greivances on both sides also My local marae tell me about the first settlers who were eaten near here. That is something I would find hard to deal with Land I have lost and that's OK but that....
Yes I can use nonMaori I usually do However the point I'm making about pakeha being offensive is that the government etcetc is deemed to be fine for us because we are not Maori, We have allhad to make adjustments!!! It may suit some of us LESS than Maori |
|
By: nicolte
19/07/2008
11:59 pm Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Correct me if I am wrong, but was this not the basis for your argument? |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:00 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Well very simply I have a high IQ and have learnt (completely knowledge based) about how to think in a "Eurocentric thinking, models and practice" type way... I also have a high EQ and can read situations well and no how to respond to achieve the best outcome for me and the situation... These have enabled me to be successful... my comments relate more to my foot in both doors and the inability of many to see the other side and understand it... Maori often struggle with the "Eurocentric thinking, models and practice" way of doing things... the "Eurocentric thinking, models and practice" people often struggle with Maori thinking...
There is a fantastic, very easy to read, book from the 1980s I would recommend to you Nicolte, its called "talking past each other" by Joan Metge... it could help in understand what I see all the time... |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:04 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
nicolte
not to sure about your logic there... the genes you are given as an individual make you what you are... which includes ethnicity, and any hard wired thinking... which is why certain behaviours are associated with certain ethnic groups... |
|
By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:04 am Yahoo! Profile:
jgini@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| good one yes psychology is about the individual. abu I didn't really back you up I agreed about the hard wired being important but think that the nurture is the main problem why Maoristudents fail ( from experience ofteaching them and trying to get them through- and successful) |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:05 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
jgini@xtra.co.nz, I am a supporter of the the Waitangi tribunal, and I support Maori to go through our legal system and have restored to them land that was illegaly confiscated from them, as I would ANY individual of ANY race that has had something stolen from them by the government.
I just do not subscribe to the theory that because of past injustices that Maori are at a disadvantage in this society any more than I am. Like you say, similar treatment has taken place by the English against OUR ancestors. |
|
By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:08 am Yahoo! Profile:
jgini@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Abu cultural is often largely NURTURE . You seem to be using a Nature argument as an excuse. The nurture one is less damaging! Anyway I'm going to bed |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:11 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
nicolte
you asked for an explanation of why Maori see the injuctices as being relevant today... I gave you AN explanation from my perspective... which is simply we think differently, and the system today better supports the "Eurocentric thinking, models and practice" way of thinking and not the maori way of thinking...
The treaty guranteed us the oppertunity to opperate in our own way and this has been systematically taken from us, to a point that if you don't think in a "Eurocentric thinking, models and practice" way you are screwed in this country...
You may not agree with that, but that's the way I see it... This country is run based upon imported models, systems and thinking... and so it suits those that imported it... it is that simple... |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:11 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| nice talkin to you jgini, we'll catch up another time. |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:12 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| abu, you did not answer my question on scottish culture? |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:14 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
jgini
I am not offering excuses... not my thing... my drive is understanding... Maori fail at most of the worst stats we can think up... all I want is for us to understand that and why, and not in a superficial "because they are useless and don't try hard enough" way... surely as a teacher the seeking of understanding is important to you too... |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:16 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
nicolte
please forgive me sir/madam... must have missed it... can I have the Scottish question again please... |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:19 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Do you know that there were riots in the 60's in America for a white man saying exactly what you are trying to convince me of?
Human anatomy.....including the way our brains function, are the same in ALL humans, it is not subdivided up into different races, to state otherwise, at the very least is totally unproven, and in my opinion is nonsense. |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:19 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Is Scottish culture, the same as NZ culture? |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:20 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| abu, I am male, and you? |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:21 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I think I know your answer - it falls under the same "Eurocentric thinking, models and practice". |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:22 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
nicolte
those riots suggested that one brain was made superior then another... I am not saying that, and never would, I am simply saying just that they are different... which is why we all have different personalties and some of us are effected by the same stimuli in different ways... |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:27 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
I am male too... 41 and laying in bed next to a beatiful woman who is snoring her head off...
I used to run multi-cultural practice and understanding for a very large social service agnecy... we used to warm people up with a joke, which is deliberately provocative...
two Scotsmen, two Irishmen, two Welshmen and two Englishmen are locked in a room with each other... after an hour, the two Scotsmen are drinking, the two Irishmen are fighting, the two Welshmen are singing and the two Englishmen are standing politely waiting for someone to introduce them...
Difference is a wonderful thing... you really do have to love it... |
|
By: nicolte
20/07/2008
12:33 am Yahoo! Profile:
nicolte Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| 41 also, just had my birthday, my wife is well asleep also, thankfully she doesn't snore lol, been a pleasure talking to you, even if we can not reach consensus, I am sure we will have further exchanges :-) |
|
By: jgini@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:35 am Yahoo! Profile:
jgini@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
nice talking to you both My last post Yes it is important for me to help the kids and to find out why - very important. However I see the excuse industry as one of the MAIN problems With the advent of the tribunals I haven't seen improvement but it's becomeworse You see I have seen kids tutored by parents as to how they should feel bitter and deprived. This can magnify these feelings and create a sense of deprivation where there wasn't one or needn;'t be one.Maori ave income is MORE than nonMaori bythe way but the stats always use median which is in reverse
I do see the nurture thing as aproblem I have kids atschool who haven't any sleep because the parents were partying all night or who havent' eaten since the breakfast before. It's not just the Maori kids - but it is mainly them. They are morelikely to steal in the classroom, they are the ones who steal from my home, they are far less likely to have support for education from home and have much more the attitude that they should do what they feel like -which doesn't do the selfdiscipline any good. I am trying to get them interested in reading, to open their minds, will buy them books and find they come from homes where there are no books. Books are not just Eurocentric - it's a global village now. I realise that Maori didnt' have a written language and this is a big disadvantage to overcome - the understanding of its importance but it has to be done. In some ways Maori are to be commended as they had a huge leap to make from the huntergatherer which is virtual stone age and many people in NZ admire them for this.But the adjustment has to be made and I do think the NZ government of recent times has done a good job in its assistance. Please remember that the world dictates our modus operandi not just the ENglish.
By the way if you have Irish ancestry Abu you should read what the English did to them!!! |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:47 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
jgini
I have a huge awareness of what the English did to the Irish... becareful not to assume... I would suggest you look at the history behind the 1863 New Zealand Land Settlements Acts and Suppression of Rebelion Act, in which millions of acres of land were conficated... Both were nearly word for word based upon legistlation used in Ireland... |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:47 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
jgini
I have a huge awareness of what the English did to the Irish... becareful not to assume... I would suggest you look at the history behind the 1863 New Zealand Land Settlements Acts and Suppression of Rebelion Act, in which millions of acres of land were conficated... Both were nearly word for word based upon legistlation used in Ireland... |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:48 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| echo... |
|
By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
20/07/2008
12:48 am Yahoo! Profile:
abu2@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
nicolte...
Been a huge pleasure chatting with you... |
|
