By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
12:06 am Yahoo! Profile:
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goddess588
very well put |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
12:09 am Yahoo! Profile:
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gazza
this country is full of kiwis... most are not like you though... you are fixated with this need for everyone to be the same "regardless of skin colour"... that will never be the case... and this nation of Maori, Pakeha, Pacific Island, Asian is constantly changing and it must tear a mono-culturalist like you apart... but this is the nation we have... and for this country to love you, you need to accept it beyond your obvious prejudices... because one day, Pakeha will be a minority in this country, your small minded views will be in the minority... will you respect the view of others??? you haven't shown an ability to do that in this discussion... you have the world according to gazza... that world is changing... NZ is changing... you need to respect that, or this country will not be warm back to you... |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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yep very well put goddess588
But the trouble is some people don't want others to have a different world view then them... take gazza's statement about breaking in the land... that is based upon a world view that the land was not productive, when according to the Maori world view the land was very productive already...
Also the other problem with a world view is when one world view is impossed upon others... we have an imported westminster government system, an imported justice system, an imported health system, and an imported education system... and they are systems designed for the world view of Europeans... yet if Maori even suggest that these things don't fit with our world view, or if we (god forbid) suggest changes to better suit our world view... people like gazza call us racist and greedy...
We all have world views, and I love them all... I just wish some people with closed minds and expectations that everyone shared their view and only their view could open their eyes just a little wider... |
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By: kelisybabe
12/07/2008
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Great...I admire you for learning about maori culture and passing it on to your sons and helping them to be proud to be maori. I also admire maoris who learn their own language. I am sorry to say that I do not have a lot of knowledge about the Treaty of Waitangi and I have not read any books about the subject. I guess I've just believed that the English took advantage of the maori. I read in one of the posts that the maori men gladly handed over their women to the english so that they could have sex with them in exchange for muskets, blankets, etc. Is this true? Anyway, regardless, I am of the opinion that regardless of race, all sorts of wrongdoings happen in this world. There just seems to be no end to the awful things human beings do to one another.
I thank the people who have recommended certain books to read on this subject.
One more thing though...I just wish people would not put another down because of their race..everyone is entitled to their opinion...even if you don't agree with it! And regardless of their race. I apologise to the yank that made a post. And no, I'm not a yank. I'm a person just like you. |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
12:21 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Firsty this conversation is based apon the prejudise between the Maori and the Pakeha, I am fully opossed to oppening up the country to more rubbish, we have enough to sort out, DONT call me something i am not,a mono culturalist i am not,
And its a bit ironic that you have realized that the world is changing, get with the times and stop dwelling on the past |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
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| couldnt agree more |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
12:27 am Yahoo! Profile:
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kelisybabe
great post... the prostitution thing was rare, and mainly centered around the Bay of Islands... But like any culture you can't paint the whole race based upon isolated instances...
My favourite Pakeha authors are; Michael King, James Belich, Claudia Orange and Ann Salmon
My favourite book of all of these writers is "two Worlds" by Salmon... it is a great read, and gives wonderful clarity to world views, by doing a direct comparison of what was happening in NZ and Europe at the time of early contact between the Maori and Pakeha... |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
12:29 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| gazza that wisdom of yours surely understands that one can only build a future upon knowledge of the past... one does after all create the other... |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| oh and gazza... I am sorry if you don't like being called a mono-culturalist... but I only do so because this is how you are acting... you are defining things only from a European perspective... statements like needing to break in the land is a wonderful example (sorry I am using that a lot but it is a great example of think mono-culturally) |
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By: kelisybabe
12/07/2008
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| I forgot to mention that I was talking to DisturbedxxCalmness in my last post...who has passed his maori heritance on to his sons. |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
12:37 am Yahoo! Profile:
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everybody
Ive had an awefull lot of wrong done to me, And directly to me, For which i have seeked no reperation, i simply take a step forward, If something happens to me in my life time then it may be worth dealing with or it may not be worth the stress, But i refuse to be so weak as to prey on the ancestors and the past and claim what is definately not mine. |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
12:37 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| yep it's a great gift... my children have gone through kura kaupapa, total emersion Maori... Oh and gazza... these Maori schools allow non Maori to attend, actually I know quite a few Paheha, PI and even Asian kids who have gone through Kur Kaupapa... but don't worry gazza, there are still far more English speaking schools out there... some of the really poshs ones still let Maori and PI attend to strenthen their 1st 15... |
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By: abu2@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
12:42 am Yahoo! Profile:
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you are still missing the point gazza... the pain is here today... the wrong is still being felt it is here and now...
we aren't talking just about 1840, 1860s or the 1960s... we are talking about 2008... where Maori top the stats on imprisonment, health concerns, and education failure... these were all caused by our ancesters... and if we want NZ to be a better place something has to be done to fix that... |
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By: jerry_springer_room
12/07/2008
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| Yea my great grand daddy got shot in the 1st world war and I can still feel the pain..... yea right. Take a disprin |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
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ABU,
Its not the attendants, its the name, OK, ill start a pakeha college---ooh what a human out cry that will cause, You seem to miss the obvious while dwelling in the deep past, You complained about my ancestors foundering a bit of ground, would you rather they hadn't |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
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abu,
Parental guidance would help that-- |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
12:57 am Yahoo! Profile:
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abu.
only one fix, move on |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
1:17 am Yahoo! Profile:
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anyone,
check this out, got married at 22 had a beautiful daughter, wife left to have a fling when daughter was 2 i was silly and had her back, had son 5 years younger than daughter, time went on, marraige died again, spent 10 months on the couch and left, met another woman, had 5 years of fun but made the fatal mistake of inviting a so called mate to live with me after his marriage split up while i was driving night shift, guess who he left with, and strangely enough the person that i used to confide in when my marraige was in trouble is now married to my ex wife, Unfortuatey for me that is all true,
That is a life, Ive been done wrong but i seek nothing,--- maybe in the future my kids will make a claim----seek reperation for the $65,000.00 ive been forced to pay in child support while paying and nurturing them as well,
I only told you this story because it is true, and there are far more important things to worry about than the past |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
1:35 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| question for you, you seem to be completely against the arrival of the white man, but you dont seem to have a problem using the tools that have been created, Are you sitting in comfort, i hope you are sitting under a punga tree trying to power up the laptop with solar power, -- in the dark |
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By: kelisybabe
12/07/2008
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I have never understood why people just can't 'live and let live' and why people, lol, namely the English couldn't have left the maori to themselves, without wanting to change them, if they did want to. If maori wanted to change I think in time they would have chosen that. Same with the aborigines and the Indians of America. And oh yes, the Black Africans. Human nature being what it is causes so much grief.
Where is the New Zealand we once knew? I don't believe it will ever be the same...we have come too far. Is it because there are now too many different people of ethnic originz living in New Zealand? Or is it because the world we live in has become so different?
To deny any injustice done to others does not help at all. And yet many of us would like move ahead I feel. How is this possible? What is the answer? Is there an answer?
On a personal level, if someone were to wrong you, say they come along and steal your lawnmower and your bike out of your garage and they sell it to someone else...what would you like to see happen? Restitution? The dictionary meaning is 1.restoration of a thing to its proper owner or its original state. 2.reparation for injury or damage.
Is this possible in regards to maori land? What is it that maori want to see happen? Is it feasible?
It concerns me greatly that the grievances that maori hold will just go on and on indefinitely. Maybe also it is just not possible to completely 100% satisfy the demands of all the wrongdoing done to maori in the past, and if this is the case then I can only think of one thing that may set one free and this would have to be forgiveness. I know it's a hard call. I also believe that it's not just about our differences...or about our grievances...it's actually about what we have in common..it's lurking within us all..it's our human heart..our sinful human heart. It may sound very simplistic but as Michael Jackson sang,we need to look in the mirror. |
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By: gazza_dude2000
12/07/2008
1:54 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| any land given is theft, you never had any claim |
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By: m_and_muk
12/07/2008
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| This started out I think in 1984-86 and you guys still havent sorted out now in 2008!!!! You Maori's and honkys are'nt too cleaver; the only guys making moneys out of this are lawyers as usual. The millions paid out over these year could have gone to your families for a better standard of living. The hate goes on and you have achieved nothing. Now that the Pakeha has been pi55ed of I would like to be a Maori looking for a job in the future thats for sure. |
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By: redbel@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| I dont know anything at all really about the Treaty of Waitangi. |
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By: redbel@xtra.co.nz
12/07/2008
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| Cant have been a very good agreement though, as years and years later there are so many people still hurting and feeling an injustice has been done, it has caused a huge gap between Maori and Europeans in this country, hope one day this will be resolved, but fairly, dont think it can be all one way, bit of compromise goes a long way. As i said i dont know a lot about the Treaty, just my view. |
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By: powley9
12/07/2008
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| abu explain to me when our local kahunga reo goes for a walk one old biddy leads while anouther follows up behind with a rolled up newspaper whacking anyone who strays out of line ? |
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