By: kiwi_geofreak
19/08/2008
8:07 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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I wonder somedays if people realise just how hard it is for disabled people to get jobs. Some of them are every bit as intelligent as able bodied people, and the vast majority have the same desire and goals in life to succeed, learn more about the world and stand on their own two feet.
Yet, NZ employers are conservative. Most would say that they are equal opportunity employers, but from simply looking at the office layout of many places and building access the reality is far different. The Government claims to be a friend of disabled people and those that are able bodied, but might have hearing loss; speech impediment - I have both of these, so I have a good idea what it means; eye sight problems and so on. However some of it's policies come across very differently.
Policy wise, I wonder how much different Helen's crowd is from John's on this, aside from the obvious? |
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By: gwmaz@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
9:15 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Yes, NZ businesses are conservative in their hiring practices, it's their way of thinning out applicants for jobs. Expect this to grow worse as unemployment grows over the next few years.
At a recent interview for a part time job at a supermarket I was asked:
Have you had any driving convictions that resulted in loss of licence? (like that is important in the context of a supermarket employee, and no I hadn't anyway)
Have you been or are you being treated for any form of stress-related depression? Again how is this relevant in the employment context? I have been treated for depression, so therefore my application was rejected.
They were just two questions in a four page application form. |
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By: ctawharu
20/08/2008
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| For me, I can only imagine how difficult it could be, not being in the position myself. I don't believe any one can really know what it is like unless you live it. So a very good thread and one I am keen to follow. |
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By: glasspida
20/08/2008
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| Yes chtawharu expressed my thoughts very well. |
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By: pasada_house@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
10:23 am Yahoo! Profile:
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I find job selection policies in NZ to be very odd; I haven't experienced them directly for many years but from what I've seen they are often neither fair nor rigorous - so equal employment opportunities are very hit and miss.
To reject an applicant on medical grounds unless the employer can demonstrate valid grounds for so doing is unfair discrimination. |
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By: solutionz@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
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| yes...you are right and many companies practice ageism as well...even the Big Red Shed (Warehouse) has a very definite policy regarding people over 40 years of age....in fact, the best they can do...is have a 'quota' which they stay well under. |
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By: ferrico2
20/08/2008
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sol: Careful, please. It would seem the topic of this thread is to discuss the trials for the physically disabled. Introducing 'age' is going to dilute its worth, I think, as the topic will then meander all over with every real and imagined prejudice that fills every thread of the "General Discussion" board. Like 'ctawharu', I believe this could be a very enlightening thread, but only by keeping the topic focused.
Sorry! Not trying to be a self-appointed moderator. Just hoping to learn from a meaningful thread. Like the Christians and Atheists are doing, it doesn't take more than a couple of clicks to start a thread. Is "age discrimination" worthy of its own thread? |
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By: tommyonions@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
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This is on topic sir - promise.
I worked for an org *** ation in the UK which tried to get exemption from the Sex Discrimination Act because the exclusively male workforce argued women couldn't do the job; then they did the same with the Disability Discrimination Act because they claimed people had to be able bodied to do the job. They'd have claimed exemption from the Race Relations Act if they'd been able to think of a way to claim black people couldn't do the job. But they couldn't, so they just made it really hard for them to get in and if a black person managed to get in they made their life hell so they'd leave.
They didn't get exemption from the SDA so they made up a height requirement which excluded 80% of women and a chest expansion rule which excluded all the rest; they didn't get exemption from the SDA - but single tier entry and the tough physical requirements for operational staff excluded all but the able bodied anyway.
Trying to get them to think of ways to open up employment opportunities for anyone who wasn't white and male was bad enough but trying to get them to get their heads around disability was something else. |
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By: tokoroajaq
20/08/2008
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| Ok, so you want to employ someone. You have a short list of three very good candidates. One of the three is wheelchair bound and the other two equally good candidates aren't. Who are we likey to employ?? Lets all be honest. Its just a sad fact unfortunately. One that needs changing. |
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By: hayden5650
20/08/2008
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| Why should normal folk have to make sacrifices for disabled people? Just because you are special does not mean you are useful. |
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By: solutionz@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
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| are you suddenly God ferroco....? |
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By: kiwi_geofreak
20/08/2008
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This is not about making sacrifices. It is about being FAIR.
My father has working for him, a profoundly deaf guy helping co-ordinate planning hearings for Environment Canterbury. Apparently does his job quite well too - he might be deaf, but his knowledge of the RMA is very good, his thought processes sound, his personal application to his work brilliant.
There are many perfectly ABLE people who cannot write reports, cannot plan logically, and are not always clear about their intent - public policy planning demands honesty.
Why shouldn't a guy who can co-ordinate hearings, tells the truth, and works hard NOT be given a chance? |
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By: ferrico2
20/08/2008
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solutionz:
No. Just thought that if I asked politely, then the theme might hold true.
From the first few posts, one gets the sense that discrimination on the grounds of disability IS an issue in its own right. Although it may (read: "does") trigger discrimination, 'age' is NOT a disability in the sense of the earlier posts - unless you, personally, feel that it does qualify as a physical handicap.
Let's not bicker, please.
To make my 'thematic' contribution: A number of years ago, I had the tremendous pleasure of working alongside one of the best electronic technicians I've known. 'R' suffered a degenerative eye condition that hampered his ability to read everything from manuals and schematics to computer monitors. He compensated for this with an encyclopedic memory that stretched beyond the bounds of his trade. As such, he was truly one of the most interesting - and funny - persons I've had the pleasure to know.
In hindsight, however, I must admit that if I were trying to fill what became his position and saw only his application and his interview, I'd have kept on looking.
In hindsight, I am very happy that the hiring decision was not mine. |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
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| There are agancies to help the less able into work, and these can do as little as arrange a meeting between an applicant and an employer, or as much as long term counseling support to the employeee, and financial support to the employer to make up for any lack of productivity. |
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By: adam-victoria@xtra.co.nz
20/08/2008
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| and agencies..... |
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By: kiwi_geofreak
20/08/2008
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I also happen to live next door to a school for people with physical and mental disabilities. I see the full range of them - some can walk and do everything that you and I can, except that they might have a learning or behavioural impediment; others will need 24 hour care until the day that they die.
It is not easy being someone in these shoes. You face discrimination from all corners of society - at school you have people taunting you, putting you down in every way; simply not including you in activities; harder to make friends; sometimes a stigma becomes attached; it is easier to become depressed.
Perhaps the other noticeable thing I have noticed is that disabled people often identify with other disabled people more, because living with some or many of the same problem, they understand what it is like. It is not to say that able bodied people cannot/will not understand, as I am sure that they can and most would certainly try.
When you walk down a street, and you see someone in a wheel chair having trouble getting up onto the curb, do you:
-notice them but keep going?
-pretend they don't exist?
-stop and help? |
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By: lorettaandross@xtra.co.nz
21/08/2008
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| Just because you are "normal", ( and what is that? it is just as normal to have a disability as to not), does not mean you are useful. I have known many "useful" people with a disability and many not useful people with out a disability. It really gets down to making our society inclusive so that all who want to be "useful" have an equal opportunity to be so. Open your mind and see all the people who make up society and not just those you clearly identify with. |
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By: jingledelz
21/08/2008
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My uncle had an accident that left him confined to a wheelchair when I was only 4 years old. I have very few snippets of memory where he was able bodied. We, as a family, rallied around and my parents and grandparents, along with my uncle and his family are a strong unit. Because I was so young when it happened I think it desensitised me to disabilities and to me they are 'normal'. The only thing my uncle can't do or can't try to do is walk - but he stands taller then most able bodied people I know. He is the most amazing person. You would be amazed at what he can do (with only a pinch grip on one hand and a hook grip on the other). He's had stories written about him and has had numerous offers to appear on telly. But he's humble and doesn't feel any more special then you or I. My uncle has not needed to work, but has done volunteer work teaching the elderly to use computers. He is still a keen fisherman, hunter and can sketch the most amazing pictures.
Its us "normal" people that make them feel like they have a disability, not them. Don't treat them any different then you would an able bodied person. |
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By: barushka36
21/08/2008
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gwmaz
I concur completely with your sentiments on the depression issue as I too lost out on a number of jobs because I was treated for this, which of course doesn't, and didn't help my situation at the time. In the end I was lucky to find an employer who saw past this disability and hired me on the basis that I was the best suited for my position.
Sadly there are far too many employers that see physical & mental problems as a hassle, that and the fact that they see it as an insurance nightmare too, one that small businesses just don't have the funding for should the unexpected happen, but problems can apply to the able bodied too, it's just that they see it as less of a risk, sad but true.
Most people with a disability don't want special treatment, only a fair go based on their experience, but that said it would be nice if the Govt brought in legislation that helped Incentify employers enough to give the disabled a better chance of good employment. In the end it's down to the employer to get past this & that's where the problem lay, shame really, and I agree this is a very worthwhile and much needed topic to discuss. |
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By: rogerpugwash
21/08/2008
9:02 am |
Message deleted. Reason: Breach of terms of service |
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By: kiwi_geofreak
21/08/2008
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I don't want special treatment. All I want is a fair go. All that the vast majority of people with disabilities probably want is a fair go.
Not too much to ask is it? |
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By: jessica_godschild
22/08/2008
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| yeah i have mild cerebral palsy and this workplace has been great towards my disabilty and is helpping me to develop to my fullest potential , yea discrimantion is the biggest hurdle that people with disabilties will have to face and yes sadly people have discrimminated and said really nasty stuff infront of me and family ignore your true value and look down on your job. |
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By: kiwi_geofreak
23/08/2008
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Hello Jessica,
I know others who have mild cerebral palsy. One of them attended Hagley Community College in Christchurch when I was doing a 6 month stint there. He did quite well, I thought, given that he had an eyesight problem requiring a special computer and a mobility issue.
Kudos to him and you.
Rob |
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By: rainbowcolouredstars
28/08/2008
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I am so called disabled, not phisically, just others you have mentioned!
I hate how people tell me im not trying hard enough to get a job, or that its so easy! I even had an employer had a chance to hire me FOR FREE, yet he backed out!
people advertise jobs for "flexable hours" which is good because I cant work for long periods a day...yet when you get to the interview they say "oh...most of our employees work 6-8 hours a day! |
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By: gumby1@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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I think both sides need a healthy dose of realism - if a disabled 9or less abled0 person isn't up tot eh job then they won'
t get it - the same goes for anyone. And to answer the question, if i had three candidates all the same and one was in a wheelchair - i would take that person like a shot because to be as good as the others he/she would have had to work twice as hard and overcome obstacles to get there. As an employer I have always rated people with honesty and if someone told me they have an illness (mental or other) i applaud their honesty and am very happy to give them a go. Rainbow i wish you the best of luck finding a job - you have so much more integrity than the wasters who do nothing and just collect the dole. |
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