By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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No right wing is laissez faire, let the market decide.
left wing is socialism, the imposition of the states will
Authoritarian is the imposition of an individuals will.
I do not seek to impose my will on others. I seek to be left alone to enjoy it. Libertarian.
Liberty is found more frequently on the right. |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| socialists dont believe all men are born equal. they believe all men should be treated equal. |
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By: glenkiwi_111
28/08/2008
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| Jamis - I didnt know libertarian was an antonym of authoritarian. Do you know the general feel of a libertarians convictions? |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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Touche, but for them to be treated equally, then the differences at birth are irrelevant and technically do not exist. ie) Prine and Pauper are one and the same.
If socialists truly believed that men are born into inequality, then they would acknowledge it in each persons development and choices.
Therefore "all men are equal" from birth. |
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By: glenkiwi_111
28/08/2008
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| No Jamis, Socialism hints at communism, or it is a step closer than Libertarianism. Take a classic labour Govt (left) trying to constantly level the playing field, that's edging towrads communism, because they do it gradually and manitputively.. Take from the hard working and give to the non working...Everybody is sorted and should shut up and be greatfull.... |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| liassez faire capitalism is just unfettered capitalism. the rightwings version of liberty is nothing more than the freedom to exploit |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| look it up glen. i thought i did know the general feel of libertarian attitudes, but it appears i was wrong. i thought libertarians were more reactionary than so vehemently rightwing |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| glen socialism dosent mean everyone gets equal shares. not the version i know anyway. hard work is rewarded as it should be, but you wont get ceo's on 10 times the wages of the workers. |
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By: glasspida
28/08/2008
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Certainly a topic worthy of a thread in it's own right...I have found this facinating, initially I considered myself to right wing leaning, but having been labelled many different leanings (including fascist) I sought to enlighten myself further by doing a small online analysis which left me surprised to say the least that I actually lean more towards anarchy...
I'm keen to learn more if someone would oblige me with the thread???? |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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JJ,
The right wing would argue that Socialism exploits the hardworking by "taxing" their efforts and "gifting" the fruits of their hardwork to others, wether they have "earned" it or not. |
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By: glenkiwi_111
28/08/2008
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Jamis - I guess it is a huge subject.. Libertarians seem to roll in different degrees. The main swing is Libertarians believe in a limited Government. If i make it is mostly mine, what my neighbour does is thier business, and i'll clean my own back yard thank you.
Generally most believe that we need a government to police and look after the essentials but not to tell us what to do with our money, life, children etc.. If i work twice the hours as my neighbour i dont want to be taxed twice as much.... Staunch Libertarians don't believe in welfare or super schemes as that should be up to the individual, i waiver on that though..
Libertarianism does head towards anarchy but stops short in the name of sanity..Most libertarians i know head towards the right as (traditional) right wing governments favour rewarding people who work harder, and seem to dictate much less..Don Brash was a classic example of a righty who believed in binding referendums, and spoke at many libertarian conferences, prior to his demise of course..
Roger Douglas's policy of sc-rapping the IRD and charging 25% gst on everything we buy is a classic favourable policy to a libertarian mind..User pays and go away.. |
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By: public_emilly
28/08/2008
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I posted this for y'all a while ago, here it is again, give it a go.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/ |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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I guess its in the definition.
To me Libertarian invokes more than economic freedom, but all freedoms. Stay out of my life.
Right wing would say less government, but it has an economic slant. Let the money fall where it may.
Socialist would say that all of society should benefit from the activity of a few. They redistribute. They seek to control most aspects of an individuals life.
Communists would say, all of society should benefit from state ownership and control of assets and economic planning. They seek to control every aspect of an individuals life.
Authoritarians, say Mugabe, seek to dictate and control all aspects of an individuals life, to their personal benefit. Often a Dictatorship style of government.
Clark has an authoritarian style of governing, but is surely a socialist. |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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Thanks Emilly.
Its about the definitions each of us are using. |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| farrelly, yeah it could be argued but you should read marx before you make assumptions about socialism and exploitation. |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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I believe Marxism to be as discredited a H I T lers Third Reich, but ONLY to the extent that both have demonstrably failed.
I did read The Gulag Archipeligo at High School and thought that reinforced my beliefs about Marxism somewhat. |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| in socialist society, everyone is expected to work. its a missconception to think otherwise. the difference is, the surplus is not appropraited by an individual but shared out according to each workers contribution |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| oh so youve read marx then |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| what the hell has the gulag archipeligo got to do with marx. |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| socialism aims to reduce govt and beurocracy. something that increased in the ussr |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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Sure. I read widely, I have the time.
If I could stomach the hypocrisy of Politicians (of whatever persuasion) I would join them. I just can't.
It just gets up my nose that being a Politician (like being a "Christian" to me) implies some sort of intellectual or moral superiority.
I thought respect was earned and superiority (authority) is given, not taken. |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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JJ!!!
Have you read it???
Google it.
Alexander Solzynitzsen (sp) spent a hell of a lot time shifting snow in Siberia because he had the intellectuall grunt to challenge Marxism in the USSR.
Its a great but dry read. |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
28/08/2008
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| no farelly i havent. the ussr wasnt what marx envisaged for man. it was an evil distortion of marxism as evil as the capitalism it despised. you really need to read marx to understand marxism. |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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Perhaps, but Cuba, China and the USSR all have and quote Marxism as a justification for their Political regimes and all have since turned increasingly towards Capitalism to solve food shortages et al.
Wikipedia has an excellent treatise of one page on the Gulag Archipelago. Its worth reading. |
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By: dfarrelly@xtra.co.nz
28/08/2008
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| Marxism is the political philosophy and practice derived from the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Any political practice or theory that is based on an interpretation of the works of Marx and Engels may be called Marxism. A theoretical presence of Marxist approaches in western academic fields of research is present in the disciplines of anthropology, media studies, theatre, history, economics,[1] literary criticism, aesthetics and philosophy.[2] The constitution of some Communist Parties and Communist states was grounded in Marxism. |
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