By: planza5133
24/09/2008
8:55 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Thanks Amy_summer2003, thats a revelation but got the point. |
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By: bronco_0101
24/09/2008
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| Thanks Amy but the quote from Al-Sharq Al-Awsat was made in 2003. |
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By: planza5133
24/09/2008
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Hi Amy, its obvious about your knowledge of the Islam book, but how can you talk some sense to the radical Muslim since you have the inside of that world. I can only talk about how far I can go into a Muslim world we do not know but how far can the radical come out to fit in with our western world.
As you know, about democracy and court of law policies, this is nothing to do with religion. Its got to do with the constitution and law of the land.
As for your Islam world, the laws cannot stand on its own with out been controlled by the book you quote. Correct me if that is not exactly how your laws work. People are aware or talking about Sharia law, is that a government or religion law. I think those points worth exploring since we have a chance to communicate on these issues. It sure help others to avoid assumptions and concerns about re: affect of the visiting Muslims New Zealand.
I think its obvious that the concern raised by others, is whether you fit into the Western democracy. That is how we expect all visitors to fit in our homeland. However, how do you fit into those laws if you cannot separate religion and state issues.
I may be wrong in saying that but its a question that needs asking, although the question is pointed to the Muslim visitors, but some western countries tend to forget state politic is different from religion politic
How can you adapt in New Zealand if religion is not separate from the law of the land? I am not say you can't have your religion, but how can distinguish the two in order to fit in. I am glad there are Muslims amongst us, but the issue of religion belief that find its way into laws. I am not saying we do not have some part of religion e.g. prayer in government, but this is whats belong to this land. Just in the same way you have your laws in your homeland. I suppose when we visit or want tlive there is no doubt I will not be all happy, but I have to conform to the law of your land even if its religion affiliated. |
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By: naffock
24/09/2008
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Part of an internet Islamic Rant. These are the nutters we should be careful about
To All Non-Muslims of the world.
Constitution for the new Islamic Republic of USA is under construction.
Islam is back.
We will win the West.
Islam will rule the world.
We will fight the infidels to death.
Meanwhile, American laws will protect us.
American Civil Liberty will defend us.
Democrats and leftist will support us.
UNO and Kofi Annan will legitimize us.
France and Germany will incubate us.
CAIR, ISNA will shelter us
What are you going to do? Your fate is doomed.
We will capitalize on US political correctness. Your own people will go after you if you say anything against Islam or Muslim. Allah already set things in motion for Islam to win the world.
We will be nice, very nice with the Westerners on their face but will stab them when we get a chance. We will say one thing on the camera and teach another thing to our children at home. On the camera we will say Islam is peaceful, we love America. But off camera, in our dinning table we will tell our children that Jews, Christians, the US and the Europe are the enemies of Islam. We will tell our children there is nothing more important than winning the world for Islam by force or by any means. We will teach them that in this Jihad by the end even if half of the world population is wiped out even then the world would be better place than today’s world as long as the remaining people are Muslims and Muslim only. God will reward our children.
Allh-huakbar.
Islam will rule the world. There is nothing you can do. Even if the per capita GDP of the world drops to half of its present level as a consequence of Islamic laws in place all over the world but still Islam will rule the word.
Jihad, ..Jihad...Jeeehaaad...
You are destined to loose.
Allah-hu-Akbar
SOTT
[Sight of the Truth]
November 2003 |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
10:36 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| hi planza thanks for your questions and contributions i appreciate as i am sure many others do that you have an open mind and are at least willing to discuss this issue in a commonsense fashion. I was born in new zealand i am tangata whenua who happens to also be a muslim. my views regarding the law of our land is that i obey it unless it comes in direct conflict with obedience to Allah. I am sure that most sincere christians do the same. I cant speak for the radicals as i dont agree with anything they do but i will say that to become radical something radically wrong has happened..i in no way shape or form condone anything radicals or extremists do and am appalled by their behaviour to non muslims and muslims alike..i believe seanmicheals has a valid point in being fearful i just dont agree when he puts all muslims in the one basket and says we are all radicals and stem from moderate families because it just isn't the case...shari'ah law is very strict but also very compassionate when you understand the precepts of it..it is to govern the behaviours etc of muslims..some however use it to justify wrongs to suit themselves..i also believe that when a people migrate to foreign shores they should adhere to the laws of that land and if there are differences at least first try and understand them for what they are before going off half informed and making a mockery of everything. There has been alot of talk about the way women dress regarding the burqa etc..i dont wear a burqa i wear a shawl which covers my head and my upper body..muslim attire is about modesty not about trying to hide who and what we are,,it is obvious what we are...basically women from afghanistan wear burqas due to the influence and ruling of the taliban, they are not the only culture to wear burqas however.. that is how they live there and it will take time on their part and tolerance and understanding on kiwis part before big changes can be made. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
10:43 am Yahoo! Profile:
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naffock
from radicals with extreme views...its not how ordinary muslims trying to eke out an existence in this life believe..
its true we dont like the way the american government go about manipulating nations to bend to their will and bullying tactics to get what they want..but you have phrased it well, thats all it is .....INTERNET ISLAMIC RANT.... |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
10:52 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| thanks bronco..you quoted a newspaper article but where was that quoted from? |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| amy summer,Your ignorance and trying to seperate the Moderates from Radicals is STUPID AND FOLLISH.If thats the case,hurry,go to Iran and preach your love gospel over there you ingorance idiot!!!.Wake up and smell the danger with letting these people to our shores.Amy,RADICALS and EXTREMISTS comes from MODERATE MUSLIMS.STOP trying to keep them separate you dumb.naive *** . |
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By: bruceduke800
24/09/2008
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Naffock
I like the part of your quote about the GDP of the world dropping to half when islam rules the world.
I guess that will be because women will do all the work... |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| Typical of you MODERATE muslims,ALWAYS have an excuse for your fellow RADICALS actions.Those people who are commiting those terrible actions are doing it the name of ALLAH or JIHAD.Not from any other religion groups but MUSLIMS and ISLAM. You moderates seems to turn a blind eye to your RADICALS actions.Wonder what they do behind close doors when no one is watching..... |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
11:53 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| sean cant you even be civil you manic..umm whats follish maybe a new word for lovely and adorable muslim wahine hehehe |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
11:58 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| do you even read the posts sean or are you all about getting your fingers busy before your brain tells them what to write? i am not a radical i am not an extremist i am the middle of the road kiwi....my religion is Islam .. i dont do harm to anyone or anything and i abide by the law..i am educated sometimes silly but I AM NOT IGNORANT..yes you are right these people are commiting terrible actions in the name of Allah and Islam but are not sanctioned by Islamic teachings..anyone can do anything in the name of whatever they happen to choose it doesnt mean the body of choice is responsible... |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| amy,then stop coming up with excuses for your fellow RADICALS.The day you MODERATES takes reponsible for the ACTIONS of your fellow RADICALS will do this world a lot of good other than....OH they do it because they're not happy with!!!!!!.Sick of hearing it!!!.Every now and then you will hear one or a few comments condemning those actions but the majority just kept silent!!!!. |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| amy,then stop coming up with excuses for your fellow RADICALS.The day you MODERATES takes reponsible for the ACTIONS of your fellow RADICALS will do this world a lot of good other than....OH they do it because they're not happy with!!!!!!.Sick of hearing it!!!.Every now and then you will hear one or a few comments condemning those actions but the majority just kept silent!!!!. |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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Moderate MUSLIMS should Stand up to those FELLOW EXTREMISTS and RADICALS or are you people are too scared you might get bombed.If thats the case.spare a thought for us non-muslims .Those Radicals and Extremists are not using the name of the Lord or God or JESUS.....IN THE NAME OF ALLAH.
So there!!!,STOP MAKING EXCUSES or TURNING A BLIND EYE TO THIS PROBLEM.STand up and take RESPONSIBILTY for it!!! |
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By: larc@xtra.co.nz
24/09/2008
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| new zealand does not relate to the muslim world, this is a christian country and our beleifs are totally against everything musl;ims do. they worship a prophet who founded his religion on the death and destruction of all peoples who did not convert to islam, falsely beleiving he was doing gods will, he was beguiled by satan and that is the fruit they bring,death and desolation . it is the religion of persecution and has no place here. ther will come a time when people must make a choice , desolation or the eternallife of christ |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
12:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| sean i am the only muslim in my family and extended family .. i know what it means to be persecuted and it smarts coming from the ones whom you love and hold respect for..fortunately they are now accepting of what i am although they dont fully agree with it and why is that BECAUSE THEY LOVE ME...what you have to say about me is not my worry ... it does concern me what the radicals and extremist are doing but i am just as you ..helpless to do anything about it..and so are muslims who dont adhere to their thinking ..you think we are all the same but you are wrong.. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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| larc..new zealand is a secular society it stopped being a christian country a while ago..muslims believe in jesus..what are you on about...you should read history ..what you believe about the origins of Islam is not so..how do you think christianity began? you are a christian hmm that must mean you love to play with little boys ... disgusting thought isnt it but while you lump all muslims together so too can christians be put in the one basket as with anyone who believes anything..are you responsible for all the astrocities that have happened in the name of christianity? all the bloodshed, because people didnt convert away from heathenistic rituals that they were performing? new zealand does relate to the muslim world..you people have been relating and ranting for ages now..arent your mouths aching???? |
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By: larc@xtra.co.nz
24/09/2008
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| i see i am worthy of your insults, praise god, you insult me in the same way that you accuse christians, perhaps you have an unclean mind, i never mentioned little boys, maybe this demon needs to be exorcised from you, if this is a secular society , why do you insult me? you are now as bad as those you have just accused, is it because we christians have something you dont have, but could? faith. also even a murderer loves their own family. there is only one way to god and that is his son jesus, who the muslims say is a prophet , but that is all , he is rejected. as moderate muslims are not responsible for the atrocities, neither are we moderate christians responsible for past atrociites. however when the time comes , you still must choose and by the way you refer to new zealnd as a secular society, why is it then that 99% of all charities are in actual fact funded by the protestant churches of new zealand, this is a christian country and will remain so, whether you or any other religion likes it or not |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
12:47 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| larc i was not insulting you merely pointing out that you or i are not responsible for the origins of our religions..or for that matter what professed christians or muslims do in the name of religion or not..yes most charitable trusts in new zealand are set up by the christian churches there is no denying that ..i have helped with a few..you believe what you believe and i will do the same..you believe jesus is the son of God .. good for you ..even though in Isaiah it says there is no one beside me , i alone created the heavens and the earth,....but then i guess its good to be able to choose what you want and disgard that which you cant swallow.. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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| anyway..i am not about comparing religions...each to our own..and for sean..Allah is God in arabic just as God is God in english..Jehova to Jehova Witnesses, IO to Maori..what does it matter there is only One God ..in any language.. |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| amy,who is accountable for the actions of the Radicals and Extremists BUT ISLAM.Most of those radicals belongs to an ISLAmic Religion groups.Moderates should stand up and say,ENOUGH is ENOUGH.Not in the name of Allah...but thats not the case....Silent protest dont do anything or get results. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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| sean thats the problem though...radicals and extremists dont listen to anyone..thats why they are radical and extreme..muslims in general cant be held accountable for the actions of those who commit heinous crimes..even though i know someone should be..just a thought but what about blaming the radicals and extremists..they have nothing to do with me but i am being made to feel that i have some responsibility for their actions just because i belong to the same religion..i reiterate we are not all the same.. |
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By: naffock
24/09/2008
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| O.K. Amy, then tell me, honestly, in Islam, what is a Kafir and what is their ultimate fate under Islam. |
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By: planza5133
24/09/2008
1:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Amy I wouldn't feel quilty on the behalf of the extremist as we all know as human there are those who do things and say things that are out of this world whether Muslim or not. I give you credit for been able to express your view, on the other hand, its a benefit to us to hear your view. Not often we hear the Ilam explain to the public who are only learning about Islam and Muslim through the media. |
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