By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
1:23 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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naffock
there are three different distinctions .. which one are you referring? in basic terms my understanding where Islam is concerned is ... someone who doesnt recognize Allah or the prophet Mohammed PBUH and denies the truth..it also means a non muslim, an infidel, an apostate or an unbeliever..its also used between sunni and shia in some places..the arabic meaning of it is an ungrateful person..those who reject the faith and oneness of God..disbelief etc..there is alot of dialogue regarding it.. |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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amy,heres the PROBLEM.Radical muslimas ARE from MODERATE muslims family.What went wrong with those family members.Did they went or read the wrong KORAN .Most radicals are intelligent and smart and yet they can be easily led on by those Radical clerics.Can you really tell me that RADICALS and MODERATE muslims dont go hand in hand.
Every terrible events,a moderate muslim will make an excuse WHY they did it.Moderates always have a reason why the radicals blows up .....HOW will those moderates come up with those reasons and excuses and yet they distance themselves from those radicals!!!! |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
1:30 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| sean there is no excuse for the disgusting things radical extremists do..i dont disagree with you on that at all...i just dont appreciate being labeled as one.. |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| amy,Muslim is a muslim....no matter what.If all MODERATE MUSLIMS are too ashamed to be rated as their fellow RADICALS then,do something about.Im doing what any concerned KIWI will do.Not because i hate you but because im worried that ISLAM will bring to NZ its Radicals. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
1:37 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| sorry planza i just saw your post..yes unfortunately there are good and bad in all societies, religions etc..please remember it is only my view and opinions..i speak for myself, the knowledge i have is a tiny drop in a vast ocean as it were..i am struggling to come to terms with many things and i question everything ... thankfully i share my life with a warm and kind hearted man and we search for the answers together.. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
1:38 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| ok sean ..ditto.. |
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By: naffock
24/09/2008
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Amy â thanks for that. Just interested in your view point as I have read different definitions and ideas. So whatâs this business about Dhimmi and why would Kafirs be given the choice of conversion to Islam or face execution. And what is this all about:
Qurâan 5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors (over the Muslims): They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.
It seems strange to me that a religion that claims to be peaceful would even have such concepts as the house of war, second class people and jihad. |
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By: planza5133
24/09/2008
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| Okay Amy got your point. Do not feel targeted its minipause behavior lol. Choohoo. Break time. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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naffock
to my understanding that term was given only to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians)but later included Buddists, Hindus and some other religions..in reference to non Muslims..there was a contract or treaty (pact)made between non Muslims and those in Muslim Government.it referred to Protection..i apologize it is not a subject i am fully conversant with .. i will have to study it to enable any credible dialogue..you have to think back to the times when the Jews and Christians were given the Bible..and Jesus..the Jews rejected Jesus..and still they wait ... the Christians turned their back and followed their own desires..and unfortunately we see the same thing happening with the radicals and extremists..please dont come down on me because i am answering this the best i understand it..it was better to not make friends with them because of their disbelief and rejection of God..it was mostly the african's who enforced conversion under penalty of death..as i have said previously..conversion must be of the heart or it is null and void..i hope i havent confused you..but i think you probably know alot about the subject anyway.. |
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By: naffock
24/09/2008
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| Thanks amy. Just looking for information, just trying to understand. |
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By: chrisan555@xtra.co.nz
24/09/2008
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| Amy: I read one of yur earlier posts that NZ is not a Christian country well I've got news for you IT IS! and I'm no christian but know this is a christian country |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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| ok chrisan i am sorry if I offended you and anyone else ..i was under the impression that the government had followed australia and made new zealand a secular country..actually maybe you or someone else can clarify for me what makes new zealand a christian country? i am also under the impression that religion and state are not interwined..is it the people as a mass? or is it by virtue of christian beliefs being upheld in government? just curious.. |
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By: chrisan555@xtra.co.nz
24/09/2008
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By far the greatest part of the population is christian
that's what makes it a christian country and it has been for a very long time - don't care who's in govt at the time or what they say, that's the fact of the matter |
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By: bruceduke800
24/09/2008
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Good Moslems, (like Amy), are welcome in NZ and are not at all responsible for the actions of fanatics.
HOWEVER everybody is responsible for reporting dangerous individuals to the police. Good moslems are the only one who know who the bad ones are. Outsiders can't make this judgement normally until they do something, and then its too late. |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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thanks chrisan..
thanks for your comments bruce.. |
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By: jdyhrberg70
24/09/2008
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| You are wrong chrisan....NZ is not secular and does not have any religion. Every one has a right to worship anyway they want. |
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By: seanmicheals122
24/09/2008
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| amy,maybe theres hope if good muslims like you can direct new muslims to NZ to respect our ways then we will respect them.Pity not all muslims are like you amy!!! |
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By: amy_summer2003
24/09/2008
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thanks sean
there are alot of good muslims..unfortunately good muslims dont make the news..so you only hear of the ones that bring down a religion instead of uplifting a people.. |
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By: ropativ
24/09/2008
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| Amy, if we know of Osama's whereabouts now, we're billionaires now...we'll be the first one to holler to the Americans....he and his crowd are a disgrace to the muslims and the Islam Religion... |
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By: catapault@rocketmail.com
24/09/2008
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I am an 'Anglo-Saxon', baptised Christian, expat Kiwi. I am living in an Islamic nation. As a light-skinned, Christian I am in the minority in this country. There are many minorities here.
We have the 'better-off' expats, from NZ, Aust, Britain, Canada, South Africa, etc. We have the 'less-well-off', from the Philippines, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Myanmar, etc.
Although Islam is by far the over-whelming religion in this country, there is genuine freedom religion. You are free to follow the Faith you choose.
New Zealand CLAIMS to have a multi-cultural society, although BY LAW (check it out if you don't believe this) NZ is only a Bi-cultural Nation. Here, in this Islamic nation there is far greater acceptance of diversity, in all respects, than there is in NZ. Here it is not necessary to legislate that acceptance of diversity SHOULD happen. Here it happens because acceptance of others is a part of the Islamic creed.
Like so many others, I was ignorant of what Islam was all about until i had the opportunity to experience it first-hand on a daily basis. I work, on a daily basis, with Muslim colleagues. I live in a Muslim world. I feel much safer, much happier and much more comfortable than I have felt in NZ for many years.
Sure, there are radicals in the Islamic world, but I don;t think you need go far past Tama Iti to see that the same elements aren't far below the surface in NZ. Unfortunately, the time may come when they are no longer below the surface. |
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By: noonep76
25/09/2008
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| New Zealand is a secular country not a christian one, Wish these christian weirdoes would Stop making claims about the majority of us, Keep your christian grap to yourself. |
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By: inbreddolt
25/09/2008
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| The Government are secular in thier rule of New Zealand - but Parliament does open everyday with a Christian prayer- mmmmm. According to the last offical census in 2006, 52% of New Zealanders(that was just a majority last time I looked) claimed to be Christians of one form or another. Something like 35% claimed to have no religion at all. |
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By: planza5133
25/09/2008
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| Thats right jdyhrberg70, it is part of the constitution that everyone has a right to their religion. There is no strict rules for religion. As long as it is not harmful teaching. |
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By: planza5133
25/09/2008
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catapault that is great,good to hear your feedback. Nice to reflect on the other side of what the media show these side of the world. I think people almost convince once the Muslim/Islamic name mentioned we think of suicidal death and bomb. Not a good picture.
You definitely, right in the sense that there are extremist like Tamaiti. On the other hand, Tamaiti has a different fight. He does not go to other countries and killed innocent people to make his point. There are boundrie when it comes to protest, which is not what the Muslim extremist are doing. It would be nice if they do their protest in a way that destroy human lives. This what puzzles me. |
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By: planza5133
25/09/2008
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Sorry people. I meant in my last post, it would be nice if the Muslim extremist do their protest in a way that DOES NOT destroy human lives.
Thanks |
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