By: lorier_may
26/09/2008
3:04 pm Yahoo! Profile:
lorier_may Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Woops more bad editing by me.
That's MUSLIMS not MUSLIM. Oh and the paragraph starting with "(back to topic)" should have been after "(The next bit is not.....)" |
|
By: catapault@rocketmail.com
26/09/2008
3:12 pm Yahoo! Profile:
catapault@rocketmail.com Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Thanks for that Lorier,
I wasn't aware of that about the Boy Scouts medal. I am most intrigued. I wonder what it was awarded for? It will be interesting to see if we will get any sensible answers, able to be substantiated by references, or just more of the same off-the-cuff nonsense. |
|
By: chrisan555@xtra.co.nz
26/09/2008
3:12 pm Yahoo! Profile:
chrisan555@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| ok lorier-may, as from today I am going to leave muslims alone and keep trying to understand ok |
|
By: amy_summer2003
26/09/2008
4:13 pm Yahoo! Profile:
amy_summer2003 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| rob do your muslims mates know you are using their doctrine against them? anyone can take text out of context to suit their argument, you are doing a great job there ... |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
5:42 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors
Your own words Rob.....I suggest a withdrawal of western agression in the middle east would be a wise move. It might relieve a lot of suffering around the world on both sides.
I have a question. The side of the argument I sit on here clearly advocates enlightenment (better understanding), tolerance (respect of people's right to be difference) and engagement in the spirit of the forementioned. We pretty well understand what your side of the argument doesnt like - other than posting venom on message boards - how do you propose the divide be addressed? |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
5:45 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| chrisan - thank you - through taking a greater interest and moving your perspective a little perhaps you will achieve a lot more for your kids futures. We all see the way things have gone in Britain but we are not Britain and I think it is a loss of faith in intrinsic Kiwi values to turn against our multi cultural society. |
|
By: allamfamily@xtra.co.nz
26/09/2008
6:28 pm Yahoo! Profile:
allamfamily@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Jdryberg
You just don't understand if your Muslim they will kill you if you dont convert please read all the verses in context. I dont want to be rag wearing sand dweller myself and I would fight them for my beliefs. This is the telling verse.
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular Prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" Sura 9:5
You are a pagan unless you convert or pay the Deina tax and become a subservient slave not to nice really. |
|
By: allamfamily@xtra.co.nz
26/09/2008
6:31 pm Yahoo! Profile:
allamfamily@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Sorry should read not Muslim they will kill you. You may note mine is a Muslim name means whole Earth. I agree with what Roba is saying. The Muslim religion will not integrate neatly into Western Culture they will want to control and take over. |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
6:35 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| allamfamily - then answer my question? What do you propose be done other than chuck hatred at each other over the internet? I want to know what haters really think? |
|
By: soicanlaugh
26/09/2008
6:47 pm Yahoo! Profile:
soicanlaugh Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Nuke em. |
|
By: allamfamily@xtra.co.nz
26/09/2008
6:54 pm Yahoo! Profile:
allamfamily@xtra.co.nz Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I honestly dont know the answer but I can tell you its a lot harder than you believe. This is the problem with Religion and where one Religion believes it has a divine right and its the only way because ALLAH says so. With the Christian Religion which also has a similar belief they will not kill you if you dont become a Christian yes they may try and convert you but they will just say your off to Hell we tried. The Muslim Religion is not as forgiving as that believe me I know. If you converted to Christianity in some Muslim Countries including Pakistan , Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Egypt even parts of Indonesia you could face death and your family as well. I read with interest saying not all Muslims are like that and it's absolutely true and there are many Wonderful Muslims make no mistake. However there is a growing up surge of Radical Muslims and you will note many countries are struggling to contain them including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, Gaza, Somalia, Algeria . These people are scary and have very little regard for Human life and values as we know them. |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
6:54 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| You mean nuke Auckland - kill 1 million kiwis to get rid of 10,000 muslims - you're a bright spark. |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
6:55 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Oh and we dont have nuclear weapons or are you just looking for America to do your dirty work for you? |
|
By: soicanlaugh
26/09/2008
7:00 pm Yahoo! Profile:
soicanlaugh Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| jdyhrberg it was a joke I just jumped in on the thread at your post preceding the facetious reply I made, I have not read any of the other comments on this thread and have no idea what the fuss is about, although if the fallout isn't going to affect the South Island I don't have a problem with nuking Auckland(another joke). |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
7:13 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| hehehe - me either although it would be nice if lower North Island was spared considering that is where I live - sorry.... |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
7:30 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| allamfamily - I dont give a s.h.i.t. about religion. For every excess on one side one can be shown on the other. Its the nature of the beast. What you are talking about is extremism (fundamentalism) rather than religion and that argument cant be one. I agonised over it for a long time in my life but learned that to find God you dont need religion, if you look for him in yourself. That just takes honesty, acknowledgement(of God)and, when you have choice - help others when you can. From that you learn the rest - you learn not to judge others but do the best you can when you can not the worst. Most of us only have the choice over our own lives but in making those choices we affect others, both alive and yet to come. That is not why I am posting here. I am doing so because people such as yourself are judging many on the actions of a few here. If you are seriously suggesting there is some international, global, all encompassing conspiracy on the part of all followers on Islam in the world to take over the globe then I suggest you convert real quick. Might is right and the mere extremists of that faith have engaged the mightiest nation in the world in a global war (instigated by the west I might add) and are bringing it to its knees. We either engage them in some alternative strategy or convert - that is the point. My question is serious. I have said what I believe the answer to resolve the problem is - the thread is not going anywhere until the discussion gets to the centre of the problem.... WHAT DOES THE OPPOSITE VIEW PROPOSE? |
|
By: bruceduke800
26/09/2008
7:39 pm Yahoo! Profile:
bruceduke800 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
I don't think we need to get too involved in Americas war in Iraq. Thankfully its not our problem. Afghanistan is our problem; as is East Timor.
On the home front we have to be bl**dy careful about who we bring into this country. If we make a mistake its our descendants that will suffer for it for numerous generations.
Will they forgive us? |
|
By: sianbull
26/09/2008
7:43 pm Yahoo! Profile:
sianbull Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| what about Salmun Rushdies book on islam called "satanic verses" |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
26/09/2008
7:48 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| Thats a fair point Bruce. So are you suggesting we become secular ourselves? Ban immigration of people who dont hold the same religious tenents - or do we just increase vigilence to ensure extremists are not brought in? Hopefully then we would then treat NZ citizens of all beliefs and pursuations as equals according to the law in this country. |
|
By: troysklar
26/09/2008
7:55 pm |
Message deleted. |
|
By: bruceduke800
27/09/2008
12:07 pm Yahoo! Profile:
bruceduke800 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
jdyhrberg
I guess we have to look at two things, 1)what each person can contribute as an individual, (a good nurse might be worth more than a telemarketer).
2)How compatible they are culturally, eg: chinese, indians,south africans, germans seem to fit in very well here and very few of them end up in our prisons. |
|
By: jdyhrberg70
27/09/2008
1:23 pm Yahoo! Profile:
jdyhrberg70 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| bruce - I guess thats pretty much what we have at present, although far from perfect. Different cultures are always going to present different challenges and we have international obligations under which we have committed to take refugees. These present even more varied challenges. The important thing though is we cant isolate ourselves from the world and why would we want to. In reality we gain much more than we loose from immigration and that should not be overlooked. |
|
By: bruceduke800
27/09/2008
3:09 pm Yahoo! Profile:
bruceduke800 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Immigration is fine because we have control of what we're getting.
Refugees are a different matter because we're taking "pot luck". People who flush their passports down the toilet on the plane and then claim that their life is in danger if they return home make me very uneasy. Once you accept somebody as a citizen you also have to accept the fact that they bring their rellies over as well.
Its a serious matter. |
|
By: planza5133
27/09/2008
3:14 pm Yahoo! Profile:
planza5133 Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
| I like what you said jdygrberg70. To find God you don't need religion.God is only a breath away. Yet we keep bashing one another for certain belief ideas. |
|
By: catapault@rocketmail.com
27/09/2008
8:25 pm Yahoo! Profile:
catapault@rocketmail.com Did this message offend you?
Sign in to report abuse |
Reply to this message |
Bruce,
You are quite correct. We do have more control over immigrants, generally, than we do have over refugees. In either case, there needs to be very careful consideration of what kind of 'probationary' terms and conditions are applied before full acceptance is permitted into NZ as a citizen.
I realise that there will be some out there who cry 'foul' over such sentiments. However, irrespective of the status that someone claims to be a refugee for, it is about time that there was some kind of 'Out' clause, for any category of entrant to NZ, which we would be prepared to enact for those who are clearly inappropriate for retention in NZ.
Do we really want to keep someone in NZ, if they have committed particularly heinous crimes here, even if they claim their life is endangered in their 'home' country? Perhaps, it is for consideration, that a refugee who has committed the most heinous of crimes as a 'guest' in NZ would be better dealt with by the 'rough justice' in their homelands than the 'wet fish' punishments that are freely dished out in NZ? We seem unable to prevent our own villains from becoming recidivist criminals. How can we expect those coming from countries with far harsher punishment regimes to be 'reformed' by NZ's much gentler scale of punishments?
I will now stand well back, while all the trendy Lefty, do gooders tell me how inappropriate my suggestions are. |
|
