By: beatific@xtra.co.nz
17/09/2008
3:34 am Yahoo! Profile:
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now if you know islam, you'll know that people of other faiths living within the protection of the islamic state are treated just like muslims. their blood, money and honour are just as sacred. they are free to practice whatever their religion tells them and are even free to have their own judicial system in place.
not many muslims are well educated to fully appreciate islam. islam doesnt call for 'holy war'. war is not holy in islam. war is a last resort.
islam calls for first and foremost to clean yourself, body, mind and soul. to fully liberate yourself from this world, and to rise above the meniality of everyday life, to live your life in touch with your creator, solely for your creator and to improve your self in every way.
when people study the dark ages in europe, hardly any mention of the rest of the world at that time is to be found.
when london and paris were little villages with wooden huts, the muslim cities had running water and light in the streets. when church and state were fighting for power, muslim scholars were busy inventing and discovering what today's science is based upon. when muslims adhered to their faith, they were the best of people.
now with most muslims disregarding their teachings, they are what you see, backward, poverty stricken, and immoral.
PLEASE DONT CONFUSE ISLAM WITH MUSLIMS!!!!!! |
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By: jdyhrberg70
17/09/2008
12:40 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| beatific - your words prove your point, their's proves their problems. Unfortunately their problems become our problems which they simply can't understand. Lets all work for more tolerance and understanding in the interests of all our children. |
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By: seanmicheals122
17/09/2008
2:21 pm |
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By: jdyhrberg70
17/09/2008
2:24 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Even worse Sean, you neither run away OR try to make a difference. |
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By: vince_the_c
17/09/2008
2:38 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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"now if you know islam, you'll know that people of other faiths living within the protection of the islamic state are treated just like muslims. their blood, money and honour are just as sacred. they are free to practice whatever their religion tells them and are even free to have their own judicial system in place"
LOL! That's really funny, beatific! Do you believe in the Easter Bunny as well?
http://www.leaderu.com/common/saudiarabia.html |
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By: seanmicheals122
17/09/2008
2:45 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| jdyhberg,Should send all these muslims and live next to you.Im not scared of these idiotic people.It's sad that they have extreme ways of living which dont suits ours.Maybe it will suit your sorry ass!!!!Aint going to run away!!!unlike those muslims who are running away from their countries!! |
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By: jdyhrberg70
17/09/2008
2:51 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Well then hopefully in future you will have them all living next to you...I've already told you I have lived amongst Muslim people. It was sweet. You get what you give and you keep going like you are then one day you might just find that out. Chill out man. |
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By: planza5133
17/09/2008
3:32 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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I definitely agree with you seanmichaels. I remember a friend from Iraq who is not Muslim, she said everytime she went to see somebody in the previous government department, they always gave her a scarf to wear and she got sick of it.
Now funny how the Muslim women refused to give their identity in the New Zealand because of their religion laws or their culture and tradition.
This is where New Zealand can make that point. If they insist to have outside women wear scarf when visiting their country, they are to take off their scarf for culture and laws of their visiting country. The law requires identity and that is the nature of New Zealand law. This is not politics but fair and square without religion or political perspective. |
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By: planza5133
17/09/2008
3:37 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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Jdyhrgerg70, not doubt about that. There are good Muslims just in the same we have good people then there are the steryo types too on both side.
If the outside women expected to wear scarf in Muslim country, the Muslim women must expect to take off scarf when they visit other countries. Not necessary take off for no reason. If the issue is like the courtcase where they require to take it off for identity purpose they should submit to the law of the visiting country, just like they expect visiting women to wear their scarves.
Otherwise, I do not think all Muslims are that bad. |
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By: seanmicheals122
17/09/2008
3:48 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Jdrhberg,i live in Auckland ...yes!!! they're here and two doordstep away from me!.Nice family but wont and will never intergrates with us KIWIS.So there you MUSLIM lover!!!I dont hate them...im just concerned!!!!If you cant tell the difference,you can kiss up to them and i will still be voicing my concerns. |
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By: planza5133
17/09/2008
4:30 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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thanks Beatific, nice to read into that explanation. Its enlighting and we need more of this type of explanation from the Islamic World rather than us get educated by the media interpretation. We read into books, news and also familiar with some of the Muslim people which some of those things we read and hear do not often match with what we experience with people. A person can hide and lie for so long but one day they slipt, same for Muslims if we were to judge the people we live with. And yes they do have issues that are not accepted just like we ourselves have issues that might be impossible to accept in other cultures.
I have been listening to Ahmed Zhoui and his scholarly teaching. He enthesize the important of dialogue between the west and east. He is fighting to have that communication so both the west and east can find a common ground to understand each other.
Unfortunately, this is not the case. I have watched the western people in the lecture attacked him for what the steryo type Muslim do. I do not defend Zhoui here, but would like to have an open mind to both sides. |
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By: planza5133
17/09/2008
4:41 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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good comment jdyhrberg70. I am proud of our fair minded country, but also pray the visitors will think and behave that way too. To ask a country to change their ways and law is one thing beside been a fair mind.
The reason we leave a place for new so we can have a new life. If we expect our new place to look or turn into our past location, then what does that tells about us. Nice to have memories of our homeland but not to expect the new home land to be the same. Otherwise, might as well stay where we belong. |
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By: jdyhrberg70
17/09/2008
6:46 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Yes Planza, I think that is fair to ask but to get it the people living in the country to which they immigrated have to practice toleration and understand Rome was not build in a day, or in this case a generation. Integration improves with the second generation markedly and is complete by the third UNLESS the first generation is ostracised by the adopting population. If it is, then look out. That is what happened in Britain and is also happening in Australia. There has been no acts of terror here and none threatened because we mostly are a tolerant and fair minded country. Comments here really disturb me because I can see that changing and worse some of these comments are made to deliberately insult and offend. What does it matter what style of clothes people wear or how they worship god? What is gained by judging each other on the worst practices in our cultures and religions? It is my experience of life that good is mostly there if you are interested and fair minded enough to look past the trivial and unimportant. Thats what I am speaking for. |
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By: inbound39
17/09/2008
7:53 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Okay.....I have read all the comments here and firstly I will state this....I am fifty four years of age. In that time I have never seen peace in the Middle East. One faction has always fought another. Muslim against muslim and Jews involved and Kurds involved....long before America went there. And why did America go there? Because a Muslim, Saddam Hussein would not keep his word in accordance to UN Resolutions that he signed and agreed to. America went back because he brike his ceasefire agreement and would not allow unfettered access to UN inspectoers which was in defiance of the ceasefire agreement. If Muslims do not want the west coming into their land then they need to honour their commitments and comply with global authorities of which they are members. In short....Muslims need to get honest. If you come to live in New Zealand then you comply and conform with our culture and laws just as we have to comply and conform to yours when we live in your land. If you do not want to live under our laws and culture then leave. We are not here to change New Zealand to suit you. You came here by choice so either comply and conform or go....it is that simple. |
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By: inbound39
17/09/2008
7:54 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| We have had acts of terror here...France sent terrorists here to bomb the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland. |
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By: ropativ
17/09/2008
8:37 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Helen must step down, Inbound...! But I see your point, although I can't see the point.... |
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By: ropativ
17/09/2008
8:42 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| ...i mean nobody is above the law in our country regardless... |
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By: planza5133
18/09/2008
9:53 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Thanks Amy, this is really good dialogue, there is some distinguish shows here between Muslim and Islam which is a good information for the non Muslim/Islamic people. I learn something new here. The only understanding I have, is Muslim is the same as Islamic.
No one is perfect and the way we put judgement heavily on others made us no different from them hence theres alot that fit in those catagories.
Cheers |
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By: planza5133
18/09/2008
10:21 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Wow there are some relevent point made inbound and sure agree to the point where the visitor must live according to the law of their new home country. Otherwise the point of moving in the first place is for a crusade. |
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By: planza5133
18/09/2008
10:27 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Yes some comments are not that easy to take in same way we accuse the Islam, unfortunately, every person is entitle to their comment as we all have different view and there is no right and wrong because we all have different character that determine the way we see the world around us.
One thing I am really proud of about New Zealand, we are open mind about who comes in but also have no problem telling them how it is.
Althought there are some issues which challenge us in NZ but they are normal issues compare to what we read and see on the news, not that I believe all of them. |
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By: planza5133
18/09/2008
10:41 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Well Sean, good to be concern have a completely different world from them. I use to drop off some of my Muslim student, I found they have curtains and then have sheets cover the window, it was so dark but one thing I noticed. The female were able to walk around in the house with no veil or scarf. T
When we were in the car, the mother refused to jump to the front sit as the 6 yr old son was given the first choice and both women were to sit at the back sit.
I can see they were afraid when I pressured the issue they are in New Zealand and thats our way we give ladies and old folks respect. Yet no, the little boy was more important as part of their culture. I must admit I ended up putting down my foot too and told the 6 yr old to get to the back his mum will have to come to the front. Its my car and I get to choose who is to sit at the front so the mother do not get the blaim. At the end I had to say to the little boy this is how we live in New Zealand. Anyway, sometimes we need to educate some of them in a smart way so they get the message.
I must say few of them were able to open to learn and there are some who felt they are to be arrogant about their ways. I had a taste of those radical type. One of them put his elbow on my shoulder. Of course I stood up on my toes an show him what kiwi women's right are lol. |
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By: replies@xtra.co.nz
18/09/2008
11:15 am Yahoo! Profile:
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talk about marches....see
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php |
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By: rosco9993
18/09/2008
11:18 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| The major concern that I have with Islam/Muslims is their insistence that religion is government and that the church for want of a better word dictates what the law says. Take the issues happening in Turkey at this very time - the latest governing party wants to change the law from a secular to muslim system - I am watching with interest to see if this country devolves again into civil war. We in the west learned a long time ago that it is imperative that state and religion must be seperate - unfortunately the Muslim world does not seem to understand this. |
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By: replies@xtra.co.nz
18/09/2008
11:47 am Yahoo! Profile:
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As I can see, the criticism here is not towards islam but the "radical" and illiterate self proclaiming muslims", because what terror they cause around the world are basically non-muslim practices...
In Islam, several things are clear:
* Suicide is forbidden. "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).
* The taking of life is allowed only by way of justice (i.e. the death penalty for murder), but even then, forgiveness is better. "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause..." (17:33).
* In pre-Islamic Arabia, retaliation and mass murder was commonplace. If someone was killed, the victim's tribe would retaliate against the murderer's entire tribe. This practice was directly forbidden in the Qur'an (2:178-179). Following this statement of law, the Qur'an says, "After this, whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave chastisement" (2:178). No matter what wrong we perceive as being done against us, we may not lash out against an entire population of people.
* The Qur'an admonishes those who oppress others and transgress beyond the bounds of what is right and just. "The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice. For such there will be a chastisement grievous (in the Hereafter)" (42:42).
* Harming innocent bystanders, even in times of war, was forbidden by the Prophet. This includes women, children, noncombatant bystanders, and even trees and crops. Nothing is to be harmed unless the person or thing is actively engaged in an assault against Muslims.
* (There is no compulsion in religion), meaning, 'Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear. |
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By: inbound39
18/09/2008
1:48 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| Muslims have big problems in their home countries and they are abandoning their home countries to come here instead of staying and fighting those that are taking over their countries and installing radical governments that sully the name and reputation of ALL good muslims. Running away to New Zealand will not help your country. |
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