By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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| Peopleunited, a common misconception is that the maori were 'conquered', they werent, which is why we have a treaty. Which is why it should stay and why the seats should also stay. |
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By: peopleunited77@ymail.com
30/09/2008
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apologies for that it was a generalisation just put in there, to give clarity in a debate that fuels such emotions when concerning an indigenous group in any country can not be truly expressed in this forum.
Of course Maori were invaded, and still live today! a fact!
Colonial Forces at that time tried to annihilate Maori and did not succeed, a fact! However as Maori are tribal and there were inter tribal differences in the past, and are still present today in some and not all, it is not easy to make others understand the true meaning of any culture , a fact!
I am talking about a future here without the bonds of incarceration that seem to trap some Maori and Non alike, not everyone is going to be as idealistic and compassionate ! |
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By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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The reality is, and its a fact also, pakeha cannot comprehend what being 'Maori' is. Because of that, pakeha have the idea Maori MUST live as they do, be as they are, and feel nothing about the past.
As usual white is right. As usual white care only about the white. As usual, white states how 'everyone' must exist without consideration of other cultures.
I suspect this is cos there is no white 'culture'. |
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By: peopleunited77@ymail.com
30/09/2008
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Yes! that is a fact, but not for all, as a result of intermarriage it must be addressed that identity is sacred to anyone , and the the laws concerning blood quantum legislation have already affected many born out of intermarriage, that is pathetic, but in order to combine and go for change, whether we all agree or not the path that leads too the future for Maori/Non has to happen with participation and accepting and that does not mean all concerned are going to be happy with the end result>
There is always going to be those who are affected in society, regardless of their culture etc!
The oncoming election is a hell fire way of seeing what is going to happen! one will wait and see! |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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autobeachbabe
i find it offensive to say i have no culture, i have just as much as anyone else in this country and yes you are part of my culture. You must also try to put the shoe on the other foot and try to comprehand what its like been a european in this country, and quoted from you
"As usual white is right. As usual white care only about the white. As usual, white states how 'everyone' must exist without consideration of other cultures."
I ask again please dont put us all in the same basket.Your statements come from anger, and stink of a racist. Please be more contructive in your comments it makes a better debate. |
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By: autotarget
30/09/2008
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nadine - this whole thread is about putting all eggs in one basket. Pakeha DID create the treaty AND the Maori seats. And NOT for Maori benefit either.
I do not see Europeans as my enemy - I am married to the sexiest one in the country! And making the "you will never move forward" statement is the ultimate cop out.
You have not said anything relevant to this thread - you are meant to state your opinion/view. what is it? |
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By: autotarget
30/09/2008
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NADINE:
The development of a separate electoral system (the Maori seats) for Maori was a control mechanism devised by the colonial government to contain the Maori vote.
For example the General roll was still known as the European roll until 1975, which suggests that voting on the general roll was originally a race based privilege benefiting the settler class - NOT the Maori.
In 1867, when the seats were created, Maori could have easily swamped the votes of settlers as they outnumbered the Pakeha more than 4:1. To mitigate this risk Maori were allocated a mere four seats in a 99-seat government to represent every Maori who was prohibited to vote.
Additionally, Maori were not permitted to vote in a secret ballot until 1938. This was 68 years after secret ballots were introduced for European electorates. Up until this time Maori were required to give their vote either by show of hands or verbally.
Now do you see what I mean about how the Pakeha are SO great at creating "Laws of Convenience"??
Not to mention the law they want to set up now - the abolishing of the Maori seats. |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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I did not say you see us as enimies, that was targeted at beachbabe. And know i am married to the sexiest babe in the country.
I did state my opinion 20 post ago (please take time to read back). I have just been defending my rights from silly comments made about white people, in my mind you have also said nothing relevent to me. |
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By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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Nadine Ive never yet seen anyone explain NZ White Culture, can you?
Dont talk of my posts 'stinking' of racism. Again you are becoming abusive towards someone you dont know anything about.
Express your opinion, yes, but stay clear of abuse.
The truth is, pakeha want total autonomy of NZ, they better start looking toward the yellow peril rather than their own people. Overlooking the immigrants would be a bad move. Which is my imo the maori seats should stay. |
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By: autotarget
30/09/2008
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oops, sorry nadine, my apologies.
Bit hasty on my part. |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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Quoted from beachbabe
The reality is, and its a fact also, pakeha cannot comprehend what being 'Maori' is. Because of that, pakeha have the idea Maori MUST live as they do, be as they are, and feel nothing about the past.
As usual white is right. As usual white care only about the white. As usual, white states how 'everyone' must exist without consideration of other cultures.
I suspect this is cos there is no white 'culture'.
This whole statement from you is abusive towards me but yet you cant see that.Why is everything i say abusive but your comments are founded in your eyes. I have said from the start Maori seats should stay, but with a few changers. Please read back. |
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By: bone.jake
30/09/2008
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| You're not a racist?......Haha...Good one Beachbabe! |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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| sweet, but i still think i have the sexiest babe in NZ lol. |
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By: jdyhrberg70
30/09/2008
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<<Colonial Forces at that time tried to annihilate Maori and did not succeed, a fact>>
peopleunited???? - people like you who attempt to distort and twist history to suit your own argument are a disgrace...throughout the Maori wars large components of the colonial troops were made up of Maori. A large component of Maoridom supported the crown because traditional emnity between Maori was alive and well. Read about the musket wars in the first half of the 19th century and you will start to understand why this emnity existed although it existed well before this. If you are going to post here at least make an attempt to tell the truth. |
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By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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Yep. Im a racist. In this area only.
I despise the French, they can go to &^^%.
Racist toward maori? LOL Now thats funny. If you knew who I am, that comment would make you look real strange!!
Racist to pakeha? Nah .. Im used to pakeha pushing themselves onto others. Some think NZ is a place which others should look to for control of the natives, I dont think so!!
Nadine .. where have i said anything personal about you that is abusive?
Ive asked you to explain this wonderful white culture .. yet you havent. |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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| My wonderful white culture started the day i was born, it involves every member of my family and is carried on into my children. What i say, do, eat, who i spend time with is my culture. What is your point. |
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By: jdyhrberg70
30/09/2008
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| beachbabe - you are another keen to talk about reality being as you want it to be. Maori today are much more united than ever but history is one of inter iwi conflict and conquest in which there existed clear determination by conflicting iwi to wipe each other out. It is very gratifying to see much of this attitude disappearing and the people working together in common interest (if not always for the common good). As a white NZ'r I have enough respect for Maoridom to at least get off my backside and learn about their society, culture and history as a basis for understanding and respecting it. Maori in this country are today given every opportunity to recover and grow language and culture and I dont have one white friend who believes they must live as we do - other than to obey the laws of the land. |
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By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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| LOL Im not sure that was meant to leave me rolling on the floor or not. |
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By: machint@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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| No, they should be kept. |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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| Culture is a way of life |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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| autobeachbabe. I am a white person in new zealand. Your comments are all negative towards white people in New Zealand, this is abusive towards me. |
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By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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jdyhrberg70 Id like to see more pakeha at the hui and Marae, there are never enough. Ooo and I dont want reality being as I want it to be. Its not good to read into what someone has written, things that arnt there.
Back to topic.
With the Maori Partys existance, some are suggesting there is no need for the seats, maybe in another 10 years.
Whats the groups thoughts on the ideal that if there are Maori seats then there must be PI seats and Chinese seats and Somali seats?? |
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By: slrofnz
30/09/2008
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| NO!!! |
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By: aoteabeachbabe
30/09/2008
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Harden up Nadine ... I havent given my views on women yet!
They will offend and abuse you also I suspect! |
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By: nadine.kramer@xtra.co.nz
30/09/2008
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| Dont judge a book. I am the Kramer part of the address. My lovely wife is Nadine. so i am sure i wont be that offended. autobeachbabe your last post proves just what i suspected about you. |
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