By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
7:51 am Yahoo! Profile:
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If you saw a parent/caregiver cursing a child in the street (not hitting, but swearing at), would you stop to see if everything was ok? If you saw a child barely clothed and out in the middle of winter, with no shoes on and no coat, would you question the parents are call an authority to find out why? If you saw a child with bruise marks on their body and they won't say how they got them, would you find out how? When dropping off your child at school and seeing a child not in the proper clothes and no lunch would you question why? If a child sat on their doorstep hour after hour, silent and barely clothed would you question it?
Until we can answer yes to those questions we will continue to have child abuse. It is time for us to be the noisy neighbors, it is time for us to question why a child is playing with no shoes and no coat in the middle of winter, it is time for us to speak out and be heard. Not only to the parents, but to the authorities. It is time that the laws change and they cannot change unless we, the people of New Zealand, demand that change.
Take time to look out your window and really look at the children. Take time to listen for screams. Take time to pick up a phone and report what you suspect is abuse. Even if it is NOT abuse and the family is investigated, an innocent family will NOT care if they are questioned. And I personally would rather make that phone call and be assured that nothing is going on instead of not calling and finding my neighbors child dead.
Take time to care New Zealand. Write your representatives, call them, make them, no, demand that they listen. That we are tired of our children being killed and abused!
And finally, hold that precious child that is yours tonight, hug them and kiss them and thank whomever you may believe in that they are safe, warm and happy.
Please start caring New Zealand. Haven't enough children died? |
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By: m5m1ley
19/11/2008
7:57 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Well said Grams... I suppose the issue comes around that we're all so busy with our lives, work, play, hobbies, family etc that we sometimes forget there is a world around us... its not something that comes easily to look outside of your own life, but it is something that would be worth it in the end. |
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By: vince_the_c
19/11/2008
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" Even if it is NOT abuse and the family is investigated, an innocent family will NOT care if they are questioned."
gramsngrampsx2:
Now THAT one's a bit of a stretch. Do you really believe that a family that is given the 3rd degree by CYFs is not going to mind? I strongly suspect that most families out there would strongly object to being investigated. And god only knows what winds up in the various databases and for how long. Being investigated could haunt you for ages, even without your knowledge.
And I also suspect that most families would have nothing but hatred for the busybody neighbour that dobbed them in.
I agree that making sure kids aren't being mistreated is worth the trouble, but calling CYFs is not a decision to be made lightly. To think that an innocent family won't mind is rather misguided. |
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By: m5m1ley
19/11/2008
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Vince does have a point... I know a family whose divorce got very mucky and one parent called CYFs on the other parent (for no valid reason) and while the other parent was cleared of any wrong doing, the child was removed from the home for a period of time and the parent that had been 'dobbed' in (can't think of a better word) had to prove they had done nothing wrong rather, so the suspicion was, and remains, always there... it took a while to get cleared as well.
But, I agree that we need to take time out to listen and see what's going on around, and maybe talk to the parents first... keep records, notes, talk to a family advice place first, or something like that, where they can give you a hand to decipher if anything is going on. |
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By: talkinged@xtra.co.nz
19/11/2008
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If I saw a child in the street being cursed by a parent yes I would say something to the parent and have before, I'm not shy in coming forward in those situations.
If I saw a child barley clothed, bare feet playing in the middle of winter, as a child myself I did the same on many occasions, so did my elder children in their younger day, my 6yrs old still does the same and has to be told and told and threatened to put warm clothes on this is not an abuse issue, many kids do not feel the cold as we do.
Any issues to do with the school yes I would say something, and did so recently when a 5yr old friend of my grandboys rung him and told him he was home alone. The teacher I told had told me that this has happened many times before with this family and she would get on to it.
I remember as a child sitting on the doorstep for long periods waiting for my mum to get home, mainly because I left my key inside. So you have to be careful on what you report I was by no means an abused child as such, got my hidings when I deserved them but definitely not abused. In these situations I would approach the parents, ask the child if they would like to come in and wait etc.
There is a fine line in reporting abuse, there is the obvious, the bruises the unhappy child etc, situations that you just know that it is happening and there is parking your nose into other peoples business, where it is not warranted.
So I wouldn't say yes to all the above questions I would say that every situation has to be taken on its own merits and I would not hesitate to report any form of abuse to the right sector if I thought it was happening. |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
8:19 am Yahoo! Profile:
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Do I believe it? Yes. Because, hopefully an innocent family will understand that the safety of the child comes first. Would I mind if we were investigated? Of course I would. But it would be very clear to any investigator that there is no abuse. Would it end up in databases? Who cares? Isn't the safety of our children a lot more important?
And hating your neighbor for dobbing you in? So what! If you suspect abuse and you don't do anything you will be the same as the lady who suspected and did nothing about Nia - and look what happened there! I would rather be hated by my neighbor and have a child safe than wait for the poor child to end up in hospital or dead.
I am NOT talking about calling in the authorities for everything. If a child is not wearing a coat, my first inclination is to go to the parent and ask why! If there is no lunch or proper clothes are not worn, again, I will go to the parent or school and question it. BUT - if I see abuse, I WILL report it. And I would HOPE that my neighbors would do the same to me! |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
8:27 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| I totally agree. There sometimes are clear explanations why a child is not wearing a coat or has no lunch. I have 4 children and my 5yo is disabled. There have been many a times due her disability that she has "dressed" herself in the wrong clothing and skipped outside. The thing is, I talk to my neighbors. They know me, they know my children. As I know them and their children. I'm not saying call the police or CYFs for every incident. I AM saying, keep your eyes open. Don't turn away when you see something that may or may not be wrong. Ask questions. I would not have a problem with anyone coming up to me and asking me why my child didn't have a coat on, and yes, this can be done in a friendly fashion. The thing is, to many people are NOT willing to question. They don't want to be "involved" - or they assume there is an innocent explanation. A lot of times there will be, but in some cases there won't. And if there is a suspicion of abuse it NEEDS to be looked into. Whether that is by talking to the school, the parents or other neighbors or even calling the authorities, we should not be turning a blind eye. Yes, it's nosy, but I would rather have a nosy neighbor than a neighbor who saw abuse and did nothing. |
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By: m5m1ley
19/11/2008
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| I see where you're coming from Grams - just taking notice of kids and what's happening to them... then if we see something that does need reporting (i.e. a kid being thrown off a clothes line...), we shouldn't hesitate to do so. |
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By: panianahi
19/11/2008
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talkinged
i have too. i felt better for it but wondered what happened when the family got home. did i make things better or did i make it worse for the kid? that played through my mind for the rest of the day.
these days id be very wary as to whether i would approach a situation like that again. with 'p' being rampant in our country you just never know who might be on it and one day find yourself going from concerned citizen to a victim.
You know how they have neighbourhood watch to deter crims? maybe local councils need to employ something like that in neighbourhoods soley for the purpose of keeping kids, mums and dads save from all forms of abuse. we can call it family watch and have regular meetings, like neighbourhood watch does, with all our neighbours. i reckon that would be quiet effective actually. |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
8:32 am Yahoo! Profile:
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M5, yes exactly. As another poster put it, we are so wrapped up in our daily lives we forget to look at what is going around us.
I guess I am pretty passionate about this subject because of my children. All 4 of mine were CYFs wards until we adopted them. The three eldest were abused beyond belief prior to being uplifted. The youngest we got the day he was born. I KNOW what type of abuse can and is done to children and it tears me apart. We have to start noticing, we have to start "dobbing" in, to many of our precious children, our future, are dying. |
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By: max_output1971
19/11/2008
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| My 2 year old daughter is a real tomboy and has cuts and bruises over her legs and arms and a black eye where she decided to jump out her bedroom window. yet if someone saw her they would thing it was child abuse....people have to be sure that it abuse because if we all start calling CYF and the police over every little thing then we will become a paranoid nation |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
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| Pani - you have a good idea there, one that has been going through my mind. Maybe we need to start a neighborhood watch, but call it something like Eyes on our Children (I'm not good at naming things). I'm going through my mind right now how I could start something like that here. Not sure who to call to get the ball rolling, but I'm going to have a good think about it. |
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By: talkinged@xtra.co.nz
19/11/2008
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It's a minefield gamsandgramps. situation:
My daughter is a most loved and cherished child, she wants for nothing and loves everyone in the world. She has innocence behind her. She is extremely intellegent, well above her education levels for her age.
Father and I separated, he is agressive by nature, he rung CYFS told them I was a bad parent, Investigation happened, I was cleared, he was not. He was placed on supervised access. His sister rung CYFS and made a notification about me, she pushed to have my child taken from my home and she become the foster parent. She has 1 boy in his mid 20's been in Jail for 2yrs for supply of P. She has a daughter 15yrs who has never met her father is very withdrawn and a problem child. She has another child who has had many broken bones due to negligence all to different fathers.
I was taken to court by Cyfs who sought custody to protect my child from her father and his family. I battled them without a lawyer as I couldn't afford one and was not entitled to legal aid. I won and have had no contact with CYFS again. I hate the b!tch sister it has destroyed my childs extended family, I will never forgive her for trying to destroy my child life. Had she been taken from my home she would be a destroyed child and her innocence would have been stripped.
You cannot go around reporting abuse to CYFS unless you are sure that it is happening. You have no idea of what it is like being in the system when you are innocent. It was horrible to have my child be marred by them turning up at her kindy, then school when she started, it was not fair that she was treated differently and I at the same token.
Be very, very sure of what you are reporting otherwise you can destroy and marr a child for no reason apart from sh!t stirrers. |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
8:38 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Max, agreed. My 6yo and 4 yo are the same. But, repeating myself here, but if you know your neighbors, or just even talk to them, you can pretty well get to the bottom of it quite quickly. And there is a huge difference of a child who comes by those bruises and small cuts by playing and one who is being abused. Just taking a few minutes with the child themselves can sometimes put your mind to rest. |
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By: m5m1ley
19/11/2008
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| Grams, that's sad about your kids, but at least they escaped with their lives and moved on to have better ones... I can see now why you are so pasionate, and I admire that. I have started to take more time to listen and look around the neighbourhood when I am home, and I would hope to be able to step up to the plate, as it were, and report something if I thought something was wrong. |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
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| Talking, first, I feel for you, I really do. There is no excuse for a parent/caregiver to turn someone in for revenge. That type of abuse and it's consequences is what makes it so difficult for those who DO see abuse worry about turning the parties in. They worry that they may be turned in for revenge purposes. And that's what I have repeatedly said, talk to others, family members, the school, the child themselves. IF then (or god help us, you flat out see abuse as in a parent beating a child), you still suspect abuse, pick up the phone and call the authorities. Just don't turn a blind eye! |
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By: machint@xtra.co.nz
19/11/2008
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There's no way in hell that I'd keep quiet about child abuse, especially in Nia's case when she was seen screaming on the clothesline. What's up with those neighbours ?
I'm so proud to be a mother and grandmother . |
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By: monstertrauma
19/11/2008
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I'd like to think, due to my nature, that I'd certainly comment on a child I thought could be being abused. I know for sure that if I saw a child screaming from a clothesline or roof of the house I would be calling the proper authorities.
I remember when I was a kid and I saw a kid bruised something pretty terrible, and when I asked her what happened and if she was okay it resulted in a clip round the ears from my Mom. I guess discussing abuse is like bad table manners. People don't want to acknowledge it, not to cause a ruckus or anything. I hope that girl is okay these days. I don't remember her name. |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
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| Pani, once again, thank you. The idea that had been in the back of my mind, I did something about. I just got off the phone with my MP's office. I asked for help in getting together a "grass roots" idea. Basically, we have Neighborhood Watch, let's have "Kid Watch". The lady at the MPs office was very nice and is going to have someone call me so we can get the ball rolling. I've told her I would gladly lead this and put in time to get it going. And though it may start in a very small town, hopefully it may grow to NZ wide...so keep your fingers crossed everyone :) |
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By: talkinged@xtra.co.nz
19/11/2008
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| good on you grams, keep us updated with the results from your MP it could very well be that this may be the start of a children group watch for all area's. I'd be interested myself in becoming involved in a scheme like this. |
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By: vince_the_c
19/11/2008
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gramsngrampsx2:
I agree with you that if you believe child abuse is ocurring, then you SHOULD, rather you MUST report it. My only "caveat" was that not every reported family might be as understanding as you seem to be. :)
My passing reference to "databases" is simply because a lot of jobs these days require criminal background checks and if I was investigated (and found innocent) I'd worry that it might impact my career. I certainly wouldn't have any warm and fuzzy feelings for the people that wrongly dobbed me in. |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
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| Thanks Talking - just spoke to my children's school. Going to have the principal call me. Thinking of having the kids have a "contest" on designing a logo or something for bumperstickers, decals, etc. Going to call the commissinor now, see if that office can help |
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By: gramsngrampsx2
19/11/2008
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Vince, I do understand. And unluckily there are people out there who will try to use the system to their advantage and will lie and report abuse for "revenge." Don't even get me started on those ijjits :) My main goal though is that everyone just look and listen. To CARE about our children, ours as in ALL of New Zealand children - not just the one's in our home.
Also, please anyone, can you think of a name for my little campaign here? I keep thinking KidsWatch, but if someone comes up with something would be grateful! Called the commissioner, got a silly phone thing of leave my number, I did :) |
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By: varilogan
19/11/2008
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| I saw a mother dragging her child across the road by her hair and shouting abuse at her. I stopped her in the middle of the road and told her she shouldn't even have been given the right to concieve a child. She let go of that child's hair pretty sharpish. The police had been called by somebody else. Children don't deserve to be abused that way. I'm not sure what happened with that mother but don't think she will be abusing that child for a while. Hopefully someone else stands in next time it happens. |
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By: liddee_lu
19/11/2008
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| People under stress need help too..I would have taken them both under my wing and tried to take the heat out of the situation in a quiet and non threatening way... it's worked before...and makes it easier for the law when they arrive, who need to be called anyway..As far as little Nia Glassie is concerned I wish( as I'm sure many of you do) that I lived nearby, because I for one would have intervened as soon as I knew something was not right - I might have been charged with kidnapping but small price to pay for her life. |
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