By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
22/06/2009
8:27 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| He can probably see a dairy farm from his room with the perspex unbreakable window. |
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By: inbound39
22/06/2009
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| lmao JJ! |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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Of the long list of hackneyed pro-Israel arguments which persuade no one except previously and permanently persuaded fellow-Israelis, none tops the tired clunker trotted out by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in his U.S. visit to Washington this month.
Settlements in the West Bank, he told reporters after talks with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, are "not an obstacle to achieve peace."
Permit me at this point to save some time, and to speak candidly. Everyone - and I do mean everyone, whether they are willing to publicly acknowledge this or not - knows that obstacles are precisely what West Bank settlements were put there to be.
Settlements, whether considered legal or illegal, whether granted overt or blind-eye Israeli government sanction, or placed there by unruly-eyed fanatics who hate the Israeli government almost as much as they hate Arabs, have a common goal.
They were built to be explicit, intentional, physical, literal obstacles to any peace process that would include ceding West Bank land to Palestinians. And that, everyone knows, describes any conceivable future peace process.
Yes, they are also a place to live. And yes, the land they occupy may well be mentioned in the bible, even scores of times. And yes, generations of Jews have now been born and raised there. But this last only underscores the reason they are there. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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It should be noted that at this point, there are in fact three distinct classes of West Bank settlements. The first are the government-approved enclaves on the "Israel side" of the West Bank barrier. Under a future peace deal, these are expected to be annexed to Israel, with an acreage-equivalent swath of the western Negev appended to an independent Palestine.
The second class, in every sense, are government-authorized settlements scattered across the West Bank, on the "Palestinian-side" of the fence/wall.
Finally, there are the outpost settlements, which Israel and even elements of the settler movement concede are illegal.
If the settlements are obstacles, the outposts are designed to be landmines. They are volatile, potentially explosive, often vaguely marked and defined.
They defend established settlements by creating a protective outer ring of obstructions to be cleared prior to any move to raze the older, larger, more solidly built enclaves.
And if Barack Obama and, for that matter, Benjamin Netanyahu, make any substantive moves toward Mideast peace, the number of these minefields is certain to mushroom. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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OFRA SETTLEMENT, West Bank – It reads like a standard real estate contract between a Zionist institution and an Israeli couple. But it offers a rare glimpse into the bureaucratic smoke screen that helps ensure a strong Jewish presence on lands claimed by the Palestinians for a future state.
The document, which surfaced in a case before Israel's Supreme Court, shows that the World Zionist Organization, acting as an agent of the Israeli government, took private Palestinian land in the West Bank and gave it to Jewish settlers, even though the state itself had declared the property off-limits to settlement.
The affair points to a chaotic mix of a government at odds with itself and involved in murky real estate deals fronted by one of the Zionist movement's most respected organizations.
It's not the first time such land deals have come under fire, but in the year since the case went to court, the political context has been overturned. President Barack Obama, in a departure from Bush administration policy, is pressing for a complete freeze in settlement development as a prelude to a new push for Mideast peace. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
8:22 am Yahoo! Profile:
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The contract authorized Netzach and Esther Brodt, a couple in their early 20s, to lease land in the settlement of Ofra where their home and eight others are in contention.
When Israeli human rights groups and Palestinians who claim to own the land went to the Supreme Court to get the houses torn down, they went with the knowledge that demolition orders had been issued against construction at the site.
The court gave the state two weeks to explain itself, during which time the settlers hastily completed construction of the homes. Then, in another reversal, the Defense Ministry froze the demolition plan, and left the case no closer to resolution.
The affair also threw a spotlight on the World Zionist Organization, an international body founded more than 100 years ago that promotes Jewish education and immigration to Israel.
After Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, east Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in the 1967 war, the government began settling Jews in the captured territories. To avoid complications stemming from international law, it turned to the WZO, setting up a special settlement division not technically part of the government but entirely funded by it.
The maneuver has served to cloud the issues and confuse the finger-pointing when uncomfortable questions arise. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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Such questions had already arisen in 2005, when a government-commissioned report accused the settlement division of complicity in diverting funds and confiscating West Bank land to put up some of the more than 100 "outposts" — small wildcat settlements — that settlers have built, some on privately held Palestinian land.
They had no government sanction, yet a slew of former Cabinet ministers, settler leaders and lawmakers have confirmed that they went up with the full knowledge of the state, and their removal is viewed by the U.S. and others as a first step toward a broader rollback of settlement expansion in the West Bank.
The case before the Supreme Court involves not a flimsy "outpost," but Ofra, a full-blown settlement of 3,000 Jews, 15 miles north of Jerusalem.
The contract shows that the settlement division authorized the Brodts to lease land allocated to Ofra even though Israel's Justice Ministry had declared it to be private Palestinian property.
"Here you have proof" of a settlement deal violating Israel's own rulings, said Talia Sasson, the former chief state prosecutor who wrote the 2005 report.
Defying international objections, Israel has allowed nearly 300,000 Jews to settle in the West Bank plus some 180,000 in Jerusalem's Arab sector, which the Palestinians hope to make their future capital. In a speech last week, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said, "We have no intention to build new settlements or set aside land for new settlements," but he gave no commitment to stop expanding existing settlements as the White House has demanded. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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Land deals between settlers and the settlement division are usually shrouded in confidentiality and the contract with the Brodts is a hard-to-find example.
The settlers maintain that secrecy is essential to protect Palestinian sellers from retribution. The Ofra purchase is such a case, they told the court. Ofra's lawyer, Yaron Kosteliz, said proof that the land was bought from Palestinians has been given to the state confidentially to protect the sellers.
Yesh Din, one of the Israeli rights groups that went to court, says the land was stolen.
"It's like I was going to sell a house that didn't belong to me," said Dror Etkes, Yesh Din's settlement expert. "It's an international organization that is, simply put, stealing land."
The government referred questions about the contract to the World Zionist Organization, which referred the questions back to the government. The Justice Ministry refused to discuss the case because it is under litigation.
The Defense Ministry, named as a respondent in the court petition, did not respond to an e-mail and calls seeking comment.
Another respondent, the military's Civil Administration in the West Bank, said only that "there are differences of opinion pertaining to the ownership of the property."
"The issue is currently under discussion in the Supreme Court that will ultimately decide on this issue," it added in a written response to questions from the AP. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
8:24 am Yahoo! Profile:
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The Justice Ministry confirmed to the court that the land was owned by Palestinians, that a construction freeze had been ordered there a year earlier, and that a final demolition order for all nine houses had been issued.
"The construction was done in violation of stop-work and demolition orders," the state said in papers presented to the court.
As is often the case, however, the state was not speaking with one voice. Defense Minister Ehud Barak suspended the demolition order in December because of broader questions about the legal status of settlement activity in Ofra.
Kosteliz, Ofra's lawyer, said the settlement never received the demolition order. The Brodts said they were unaware of it when they signed the contract with the settlement division. They said the settlement was in charge of the construction.
The houses were near completion when the legal appeal was filed, and settlers hurried to finish construction during the two weeks the state was given to respond to the petition. They even won a rare and controversial dispensation from Ofra's rabbi, Avi Gisser, to allow construction to continue on the Sabbath, the Jewish day of rest, using non-Jews as workers.
Palestinians and Israeli right groups say the case is nothing unusual, and that settlements are often built on private Palestinian land. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
8:25 am Yahoo! Profile:
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| Yesh Din says it has seen a classified database prepared for the Defense Ministry and that it shows that much of the construction at Ofra and in many other settlements is on land registered to Palestinian owners. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
8:33 am Yahoo! Profile:
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How do we salute to Israel?
The music after the parade
R. Sid Schwarz
A band launched into a rousing rendition of Am Yisrael Chai. I spent more than 25 years as an activist for Soviet Jewry. This was our theme song signaling solidarity both with the history of our people and with all those oppressed Jews in the world whose cause we championed. A group of young men in their 20's with kippot and tziztzit were right in front of me dancing in a frenzy. But they alternated the verse that meant "the people of Israel lives" with "all the Arabs must die." It rhymed with the Hebrew. Given the way all joined in, it was clear that this was not the first time it was sung.
I leaned over to a young man who was next to me, also wearing a kippah and tzitzit. I nodded at the dancers and asked: "Does this song bother you?" He looked at me with a suspicious look and replied: "This is Zionism." |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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Jewish neighborhoods in east Jerusalem are included in the US demand that Israel halt "settlement" construction, including for natural growth, State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told The Jerusalem Post during a press briefing on Monday.
East Jerusalem Arabs. ...
East Jerusalem Arabs. [illustration]
Photo: Ariel Jerozolimski [file]
SLIDESHOW: Israel & Region | World
"We're talking about all settlement activity, yes, in the area across the line," he said, referring to neighborhoods in Jerusalem over the Green Line, or pre-1967 armistice line, in response to a question on where America's calls to halt construction in the settlements would be applied.
Even so, Kelly had no immediate reaction to the Ministry of Housing and Construction's inclusion in the draft 2009-10 state budget of funds for the capital's Jewish Har Homa neighborhood or for one in the West Bank settlement of Ma'aleh Adumim.
The ministry has earmarked more than NIS 200 million for the preparatory work and marketing of 1,210 apartments in the east Jerusalem Jewish neighborhood of Har Homa.
The line item, which sets aside funds for the new apartment projects, can be found in the draft state budget now being debated in the Knesset.
The money for these projects has been allocated at a time when tensions remain high between Israel and the United States regarding construction over the Green Line. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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Har Homa has been a particular sticking point because of its location on the city's southeast edge, next to the Palestinian city of Bethlehem.
The Obama administration had not officially clarified its position on Jewish neighborhoods over the Green Line but within Jerusalem's municipal boundaries, but the Netanyahu government had been working under the assumption that US officials' call to halt even natural growth in the settlements did not refer to neighborhoods in the city, according to high-placed government officials.
Kelly's comments Monday, however, made clear that Jerusalem was included, suggesting that efforts to finesse the disagreement could be further complicated.
US President Barack Obama has called the settlements illegitimate and said that their expansion must stop, including natural growth.
While Israel has expressed its willingness to take down unauthorized West Bank outposts, it has balked at halting natural growth in the settlements, arguing that communities need to continue to function normally.
The dispute between the two allies has been unusually public, including messy wrangling over tacit arrangements sketched out far from the spotlight under the Bush administration.
Though Israel in 2003 signed onto the US-sponsored road map peace plan, which calls for a settlement freeze including natural growth, government sources claim that Bush officials assented to construction continuing in settlements expected to remain with Israel under any peace accord with the Palestinians.
The Obama administration, however, has contended that if such understandings were ever discussed in private, they were not resolved or made binding. |
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By: smittyj@xtra.co.nz
23/06/2009
1:35 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| just been talking with a group of Israeli tourists.The most fervently passionate fanatics that I have ever encountered.The general consensus appears to be that they will never back down with several young people stating that they would rather see the worlds end first.Quite scary! |
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By: xtr365705@xtra.co.nz
23/06/2009
2:27 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| At least they didn't take you hostage, shoot you or cut your head off. It's also 'quite scary' when a Hamas rocket lands on some kids school. That same rocket that was fired from outside one of theirs. Sure it's scary. |
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By: smittyj@xtra.co.nz
23/06/2009
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| Did I say that I was pro hamas xtra?. another paranoid cyber troll who jumps to the wrong conclusion.Sorry but cant see that blowing up the planet with all its occupants is anything but scary.Perhaps though xtra you are one of these ego inflated types who believes himself to be indestructable.The "last man walking" so to speak. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
3:17 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| You have to forgive XTR Smitty....he likes to forget that it takes two to tango and that the Zionists started the dance. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
3:18 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| I also agree with your thinking Smitty. |
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By: robaaman@xtra.co.nz
23/06/2009
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| Just watched the video footage of Neda the young Iranian women 27 years of age. Gunned adown by the fanatics in Iran trying to defend a very corrupt regieme. Do you believe they are shooting people in the crowd now Inbound. Rounding up Journalists stopping freedom of speech. Is this how you believe democracy should work Inbound? |
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By: laurence_brian
23/06/2009
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rodaaman, why don't you start a neew thread, as Hamas, and Israel have very little to do with the situation in Iran. Do you not understand the situation there?
You seem so determined to discuss, or is it just a smoke screen? |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
23/06/2009
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| If Mousavi had won, roba would be saying "nothings changed, they support terrorists, they want to nuke Israel, blah blah blah.... |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
23/06/2009
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| I see it was the Jerusalem Post who reported that Hamas have been helping put down the Iranian protests. FFS! Why would Iran need Hamas, they have the Revolutionary Guard. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
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| Just more diversionary tactics...Jpost has gone really Zionist. |
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By: jamisonjohn@rocketmail.com
23/06/2009
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| roba, when something is reported like that, you have to look at who wrote it and whos to gain. When the same person that will gain from it, wrote it, you have to question it. Its called CRITICAL THINKING. Something you and xtr lack totally. |
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By: inbound39
23/06/2009
9:46 pm Yahoo! Profile:
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| You need a brain for critical thinking JJ...something they both lack. |
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