By: xtra000
3/08/2009
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| Which is why the statement "New Zealand rugby is strong when Auckland rugby is strong" isn't true. |
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By: utilityback
3/08/2009
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| They're busy playing test and world cup matches to play a significant amount of NPC games to make a difference to those campaigns. |
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By: xtra000
3/08/2009
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"AB's generally don't play NPC on World Cup year, so those are irrelevant, xtra000"
Some do turn out for their province. As far as I know the NPC stars before a world cup.
But if you want something that you feel is more releavant just take a look at the results of the Super 14.
1999: Crusaders win
2003: Blues win
2007: The Bulls win and South Africa win world cup. |
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By: utilityback
3/08/2009
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| AB's generally don't play NPC on World Cup year, so those are irrelevant, xtra000. |
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By: putionz@ymail.com
3/08/2009
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| I do recall that some fo thsoe years had sh1tloads of Otago players in adn in other years canty boys... nice to see a bit of a mix now hehehehe |
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By: xtra000
3/08/2009
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"when auckland is strong nz rugby is strong"
That statement hasn't always been true.
1995: Auckland win NPC
1999: Auckland win NPC
2003: Auckland win NPC
2007: Auckland win NPC
Auckland has won in all those world cup years but the ABs still lost. |
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By: drich6996
3/08/2009
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Lets face it you guys,every decade in NZ RUGBY has had its LEGENDARY PLAYERS & we will always remember them..Meads,Lohore,Clarke ,McCormick,Kirkpatrick,Sk inner,
Tremain,Whineray & Williams ....are some from my era.
Rugby has moved on since those days.There are exceptional
players that exist in EVERY PROVINCE!!The game is faster,rules
always changing but you still recognise All Black potential. |
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By: oli4846
3/08/2009
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Southernman
Are u the world famous Sonny Shaw? |
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By: powley9
3/08/2009
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| when auckland is strong nz rugby is strong we won the world cup with auckland players and you saying that the abs were great because of hawkes bay in the sixties is wrong tremain was the outstanding player in that side and he was not playing for the ab at that time retired. |
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By: xtr365705@xtra.co.nz
3/08/2009
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One of the great misfortunes for NZ rugby is the fact that the professional era has seen the best of our Int. test players consider the financial rewards in the northern hemisphere over anything else; then leave.
If one was to assemble an expat NZ rep team from the northern hemisphere and put them up against the current AB's; the ex pats would slaughter what we have left.
NZ is also alone in this mass player drain because the likes of the top players in Oz or SA think more of their flags than they do the cheque book. They'd probably get better deals than what our penny pinching NZRFU offers as well. |
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By: larksea
3/08/2009
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I think that statement about auckland rugby being strong for nz rugby to be strong is partly true for the last 20 odd years.
But obviously there have been times where other areas have been dominant. My Grand mother who is a huge rugby supporter always talks about when she was growing up they all used to think that the Ranfurly Shield was just a trophy otago and southland played for because they where the only ones that anyone could remember having it.
I really don't think it's the end of New Zealands time at the top of the Rugby world. You cant win everything every year. lets face it NZ has won 4 tri nations in a Row now you cant keep that up for ever and losing it was always going to hurt after having it for so damn long.
And the Tri nations really does sort out who the best team in the world is more than anything else and more than a world cup does. for some time anyway the top 3 teams are NZ, SA and AUS.
But 1 bad year does not mean the end of the world. It was always going to happen with the Injury Crisis we have had. Everyone knew it was coming, but it still hurts like hell now it's here.
just need to keep the faith, the success of our under20 team and the development of some key players that have big futures is sign enough to me that this slump will only last a season. I just hope we do too badly on the tour north. Cant remember exactly who we are playing apart from the welsh but there are teams up there we have never lost to and i'd not like to see that start now. |
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By: southernman_nz
3/08/2009
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your opinion ain't that humble oli, nor is it correct.
AB rugby was arguably strongest in the 60s - when Hawkes Bay were the premier team in NZ. the 40s and 50s were Otago and Southland on top, the 80s were Auckland's era, and the 2000s so far have been Canterbury's.
Don't just repeat old hat generalisations and think it makes you look clever or knowledgable.
as for your comment about world class players, surely a plagarist as yourself would know another saying "a champion team will always beat a team of champions".
in reality though, have a look at the players in there:
Sivi & Roks - still star players but badly out of form. McCaw - his class is still evident, but he's a lone ranger at the moment.
Nonu & Smith are the best midfield combo going at the moment. Didn't even see Mortlock, they have consistently our played the Boks in both Tests too. Breaking the line numerous times, but can't recall them getting split. Smith is in the form of his life.
Mils is still as good as ever, but suffering from his wings not offering the usual support.
Our front row still scrums better than Aus or SA. Would be an interesting matchup v the Lions.
Ross is a young kid that any rugby fan with half a brain can is going to be a huge star in the game.
Thorn would arguably make a world XV, although tough to split up Matfield and Botha.
So think about it a bit before you open your gob and make a fool of yourself. Oops, too late. |
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By: oli4846
3/08/2009
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There is an old saying .. when Auckland rugby is strong,All black rugby is strong.
While Mr Mainland still think ABs is still as strong as ever,in my humble opinion, both professionalism and the poor player selection policy are killing the All Blacks brand. The ABs used to have world class players in almost every positions, now i can barely name 4 from the current squad. |
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By: rugbycolumn
3/08/2009
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| I was pointing out a similarity between the Blues and All Blacks poor play this year- not attacking Super 14 rugby in general (andy can do that well enough without my help). |
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By: xtra000
2/08/2009
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| I'd have some questions over the validity of this years super 14. |
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By: horak@xtra.co.nz
2/08/2009
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| rugbycolumn, try watching some South African teams play. People like you make dumb people look clever. |
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By: madaxe01
2/08/2009
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yup how much did it cost us last year, wining everything....
nope I still have GREAT faith in the boys....congrates BOKS enjoy it while it lasts....someone will cop a BACKLASH from this....
BEWARE THE WOUNDED TIGER....lol... |
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By: rugbycolumn
2/08/2009
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Funny you should mention the Blues xtra.
I sat through fourteen weeks of unskilled, idiotic rugby earlier this year as a Blues supporter and for some strange reason I seem to be sitting through it this international season as well. |
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By: xtra000
2/08/2009
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It seems that you folks are watching a rugby team experiance an injury and depth crisis for the first time.
I saw the same problem occur with The Blues. Getting rid of those that are out of form will only make the problem worse. For example, Nick Evans joined a northern hemisphere club after he was droppped from the ABs last year.
Now the coaches want him back. |
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By: southernman_nz
2/08/2009
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professionalism is the problem now?
well, our U20s are virtually pro and have carried all before them the last 2 seasons.
Oli, I know you are desperately trying to find some sort of sign or optimism that All Black rugby is dead, but they only way you'll find that is by making it up in your head.
Yes, rugby is in a depression here but not as bad as the early 80s. The NPC had some really strong performances by some great youngsters. We had 3 teams in the S14 semis. Our young guys pretty much win all they enter overseas. And now we've got guys queing up to come home for the 2011 RWC.
The problem is we have a slight gap between the guys that left and the young guys coming through, and we're filling that gap with guys like Donald and hanging onto blokes like Roks that should be looking for a Europe club for next year.
This will be a poor year, but we'll rebuild next year (or reload as some have put it) and build a team for 2011.
I'm not a fan of building teams for something 2-3 years away, but it's where we are at the moment and 2011 is a must-win for us. World Cups in general come and go, but you must always target your home one especially as we'll probably never host it again. |
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By: oli4846
2/08/2009
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| Professionalism is slowly suffocating New Zealand rugby, its an ugly fact, oh well, she'll be right huh? |
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By: putionz@ymail.com
2/08/2009
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OLI
yeah SAFFA won and your women are beautiful. Feel better? FFS hahahaha. Thanks for the windup now go take your meds. |
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By: andregrob1@xtra.co.nz
2/08/2009
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lets face it , the AB's will alwyas be there and thereabouts. The boks are tops at the moment. Give us some due. I dont say it will be there forever, but right now the boks are the best!!
Cheers!!! |
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By: drich6996
2/08/2009
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| Yes its great having the talent of a strong NZ Junior side.In 1971 they beat a successful All Black side. |
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By: southernman_nz
2/08/2009
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oli - what journeymen are you on about?
The ABs are still stacked full of stars, but they are collectively having a form slump. Unfortunately these things are often contagious and the harder you try to fix it the worse it gets.
Usually it's good to have a game straight after a loss and get back on the horse as they say. however, I think it's good the ABs have 3 weeks off now to regroup, strip their game plan back to basics and rebuild what their plan is.
The only journeyman is Donald, and I think Carter showed enough to warrant inclusion v Aus if he keeps improving over the next couple of NPC games.
As for up and comers:
Cruden, Slade, Guilford, Dagg, the Whitelocks, Gear, Robinson, Lowe, Masanga - there's half a team to build around in the future. The were other great talents in the U20 side whose names I can't recall just now.
Add the current new ABs to that - Ross and Franks in particular - and we're well on the way to the post 2011 team already |
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